Qualifying For the 2005 Nationals

[Natchez]

Quote by Wayne
So, if my guys qualify at all in 2005, we look forward to hasty hotel arrangements, overpriced airfares and, for me, several weeks of pure hell making the trip arrangements.

Wayne, I have an out for you to consider. Since Tonya (Scott) & crew got the conference off the ground this year, we are probably only going to one regional and then to the Championships regardless if we qualify or not. The logic is that regardless if our robot makes the trip to the Championships, it will be worth it for the students to experience 15,000 other students excited about engineering. If the robot does not go, our students will have the opportunity to help other teams (cheer, scout, etc.), volunteer (FRC & FLL), and attend the conference.

With all that said, hopefully the packages will be available to any teams that wish to attend and not just those who have qualified. Message to FIRST: PLEASE open the packages to any teams that wish to attend even if they have not qualified for the Championships. It's a win/win for everyone. Of course, we could always "cooperate" with another qualified team to book our packages.

Just some thoughts,
Lucien

[nerdcool64]

In short, I don't see why there couldn't be 600 teams at Nats. Yes, it would be harder for FIRST in terms of manpower, it would mean Eistein would be used for more than 6-9 matches, and it would mean that it would be harder to see the finals, but it is possible. As FIRST grows, I think that the Championship needs to grow as well.

Yes, this is definitely possible to have 8 divisions, but I really dont see why it should be done. I dont think everyone should be able to go to nationals every year. I think it should be limited, and a challenge to get in to. It adds to the excitment if your team does go. It makes it more of an accomplishment just to be there. Also, it will excite the communities more, esspecially as FIRST grows into a household name. I agree every team should get the oppritunity to go to nationals, and the teir system is the perfect way to do this. I think FIRST really has things worked out right, making nationals a thing of honor and prestige, but also something available to everyone!

[Wayne C.]

Originally Posted by Raul

What is most interesting is that 71 almost did not get into the Championship this year because they did not pre-qualify or win a regional. They got in as a late addition due to open slots. What does that say about the merit of winning a regional as qualifications for the Championship?

Interesting how those things happen. Hmmm.

WC

[Wayne C.]

Originally Posted by Natchez

Wayne, I have an out for you to consider. Since Tonya (Scott) & crew got the conference off the ground this year, we are probably only going to one regional and then to the Championships regardless if we qualify or not. The logic is that regardless if our robot makes the trip to the Championships, it will be worth it for the students to experience 15,000 other students excited about engineering. If the robot does not go, our students will have the opportunity to help other teams (cheer, scout, etc.), volunteer (FRC & FLL), and attend the conference.

With all that said, hopefully the packages will be available to any teams that wish to attend and not just those who have qualified. Message to FIRST: PLEASE open the packages to any teams that wish to attend even if they have not qualified for the Championships. It's a win/win for everyone. Of course, we could always "cooperate" with another qualified team to book our packages.

Just some thoughts,
Lucien

Sounds good Lucien but how do I explain to my school administration that our team is travelling so far and taking off school time just to watch. My superintendant is most interested in seeing a trophy and nothing more. The neanderthal sports like attitude is really offensive at times but his office approves the travel.

You and I know that being at the Nats is special, but I think there would be something missing if you just sit there and can't be a part of the competition.
If that was the case you could stay home and watch the telecast in comfort.

WC

[Wayne C.]

Originally Posted by rforystek

Does anyone here know when FIRST normally releases information pertaining to the new nationals selection system?

based on prior years - this is right about the time you pay your money in the fall

[Nate Edwards]

I don't understand how we quallified this year then, Because we had quallified way before we got 5 points at our Regional. We had previously won a Regional Chairman's and Team spirit in 2003 so we pre-qualfied for nationals in 2004 and so we were under the feeling we got another 5 quallifying points in 2004 so are we qualified for Nationals in 2005 or not? My team will be starting fundraising and if we only need to fundraise for a Regional or possibly 2 then we need to know this, but if we need to fundraise for nationals because we are pre-qualified again then we need to know... Also the rookie teams qualify with their rookie all-star awards in the year they win so the calculations given earlier were inaccurate i think...
Nate

[Natchez]

Originally Posted by Wayne C.

Sounds good Lucien but how do I explain to my school administration that our team is travelling so far and taking off school time just to watch.

Wayne, that's where the conference comes in for us; without the conference, it would be a hard sell. Our administration is already onboard with the idea that the students will be going to the conference and oh, by the way, they may be competing in a robotics competition. In our case, it "saves" the district $4,000 if our robot does not go along for the ride; that's a lot of FLL, EARLY, BEST, & Botball teams! Basically, our district has a robotics education budget that is spent on several different activities from 3rd through 12th grade. Time will only tell what affect this has on the students, teachers and engineers; hopefully, it will be years and years before I can report on what it is like to go to the Championships without a 'bot.

There is one MAJOR drawback with this plan though, we may become overzealous and put winning (which is our 3rd goal) ahead of teaching the students engineering & life skills (which is our 1st goal ... our 2nd goal is to expose our community to engineering). We are VERY cognizant that this may happen so we've been trying to think of ideas to combat it.

[Matt Leese]

There's a very simple reason why there won't be 600 teams at the Championship: it's hard to manage 300 teams, 600 would be a nightmare. It's not an issue of space, it's merely an issueing of managing the teams. That many teams in one place would be very difficult to organize and FIRST knows it.

Matt

[Michael Sperber]

Originally Posted by Rich Kressly

Mike,
To me the issue is not that of space, it comes down to:
1. Having enough people and equipment to support a fifth division and
2. Devising a playoff/finals system that works in a timely and fair fashion. If anyone has ever arranged a large scale tournament you know the problems that exist.

[... snip...]

With all of that said, I'd love to find a way to include as many teams as possible, downsize the divisions to "regular regional" size, and have each team run more matches. Looking at the big picture, I think FIRST is already doing the best it can to accomodate all of those ideals.

I agree that FIRST is doing the best it can with the resources it currently has available (staff, volunteers, fields, time, and of course money). Putting together an event of this size is not easy...

But the real question could be asked: What can WE do to help FIRST with the current situation/limitations, to make it easier for them once they do decide to expand?

just some food for thought
-mike

[Wayne C.]

To Revive an Old Thread-

Now that FIRST has announced a new price increase they must be thinking about the 2005 season-

I repeat- does anybody have any definitive information from FIRST as to the method for qualification for the National Championships for 2005?

Is FIRST planning to announce this anytime soon?

WC

[Elyse Holguin]

Originally Posted by P.J. Baker

I believe Beatty did win EI at one of their regionals, which would have qualified them (they were already entered at that point, I think).

We were indeed already entered because of open spots at the time we won the EI award at Midwest, had we have not have been entered at that point it's pretty unsure if we would have had the funds available to attend the Championship or not.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by Wayne C.

To Revive an Old Thread-

Now that FIRST has announced a new price increase they must be thinking about the 2005 season-

I repeat- does anybody have any definitive information from FIRST as to the method for qualification for the National Championships for 2005?

Is FIRST planning to announce this anytime soon?

WC

I sent an e-mail to FIRST a week ago with regard to this topic, and they have not yet responded. All I asked was when they were planning on releasing the criteria, and I mentioned some of the points from this thread, such as financial planning issues for smaller teams. You'd think they'd have the courtesy to tell me when the information will be available, even if they don't tell me the actual information. I will post whatever I hear from them, if anything, though I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Steve W]

We could ask these questions at the team forums being held. If I remember I will ask on June 15 at ours. I believe that this years Champions are exempt for 1 year only. Each year the previous years Champs are allowed to attend to defend their title. This could change though.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by Wayne C.

To Revive an Old Thread-
Now that FIRST has announced a new price increase they must be thinking about the 2005 season-
I repeat- does anybody have any definitive information from FIRST as to the method for qualification for the National Championships for 2005?
Is FIRST planning to announce this anytime soon?
WC

Ok, Wayne and everyone else. Nothing has been released as of a "new" system for 2005. But, in last years release on this issue, FIRST said:

For 2004 and beyond, a select number of Championship spots each year will be available for open registration. These slots will be based on the number of years since a team last attended the Championship. All teams will be classified in a Tier (ie. Tier 6 equals six years since attending a Championship or last attended in 1998; Tier 2 equals two years since attending or attended in 2002). If the number of teams in a tier is greater than the number of available slots, FIRST will use a lottery system for teams within each tier to determine eligibility for the remaining open slots. The final determination will be first come/first serve until all available openings are filled. A wait list will be maintained for any openings that become available after the close of registration. Typically 10 to 15 openings occur during the Competition season.
Teams can access the year they last attended the Championship in the Team Information and Management System used for registration. Teams that are qualified to register will have access to Championship registration starting noon Eastern time on October 22, 2003. Please note that only teams that Prequalify and teams in Tiers 3 - 6 will be able to register as of the 22nd. FIRST will open registration to teams in Tier 2 on November 5, 2003. Information on Tier 1 and Rookie Tier registration will be made available at a future date. The year each team last attended the Championship is part of TIMS and your team should verify that information prior to the opening of Championship registration.

So, I am assuming nothing, only guessing that a new tier system will be the only system that is set into place going by that quote which by the way, can be found on THIS PAGE on FIRST's website.

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by Wayne C.

Sounds good Lucien but how do I explain to my school administration that our team is travelling so far and taking off school time just to watch. My superintendant is most interested in seeing a trophy and nothing more. The neanderthal sports like attitude is really offensive at times but his office approves the travel.
WC

This matter really bothers me, because I had the best time of my life down there at Atlanta. It would an unbelivable opportunity.

I was just thinking, as for convincing the staff and such, could the whole team make a petition or something? Get the whole team to write how much they learnt, how they got inspired just being at that place? It's not always about winning...

Although, I do wish we qualify for the nationals, it makes things much simpler.. but everythings such a mess right now.. All I can do is pray for FIRST to release the criteria soon