Draft..

[Yan Wang]

It's always offensive to me how a person that is not a citizen of the United States may be drafted to fight for rights and the freedom which he may not have anyway. The same applies to African Americans prior to and during World War II along with other minority groups, including homosexuals.

[Ryan Foley]

Honestly, if congress did pass the draft and it went on to the president, and was activated, I don't believe that the American population would stand for it. Iraq resembles Vietnam, we are there even though it doesnt pose a direct threat to our country (people arent attacking us). Loads of people didnt want us in Vietnam, and the same goes for Iraq. If the draft was activated, there would be a very large amount of people that would not go along with it. If it were an attack on the US itself and the war was in self defense, it would be a different story.

I do not have an opion whether or not we should be in Iraq, but I do know that I am completely against making people fight. People are in charge of their lives, not our government. This country is supposed to be a place of freedom right? So why would they send people against their will to what could be their death. If they need more people, then send the people who actually support this war.

If it was activated, and I was called up, I would opt for non-combatant service. I am against killing people. I dont like war. Weapons scare me, the closest thing I have held to a weapon is my leatherman, and even holding that with one of the blades out scares me sometimes. I would not have a problem serving my country, but only in a non-combat way. I am looking forward to my future, getting through college, getting married, and having a family. I dont care to loose all of that because the government screwed up and bit off more than they can chew.

Besides, look at one very important piece of information. The Iraq power handover from US to the new government is still set for June of this year. So if we are no longer in control of Iraq, the number of troops we need there would not be as large as it is now, so the draft wouldnt be needed.

I dont know whats going to happen for sure, all I know is that I am going to live my life the happiest and fullest I can in the present, and not worry about the future until it gets here.

But I think I'll go with DJ on this one and stay 20 or so lbs underweight.

[mtrawls]

I don't want to go too horribly off-topic and get into a political rant ... but since this is chit-chat, I'll endulge myself a little !

Originally Posted by Ryan Foley

Iraq resembles Vietnam, we are there even though it doesnt pose a direct threat to our country (people arent attacking us).

People certainly attacked us on 9/11. They attacked the uss cole. Terrorists certainly are planning other operations against us. Whether you agree we should have gone in there to start with or not is somewhat irrelevent at this point ... because the terrorists have made Iraq somewhat of a central staging ground. Certainly we are fighting against terrorists, and they are attacking us when they can (ahem, Nick Berg was American, no?). If we leave now then the terrorists would become very much more dangerous and pose a direct threat to us -- I don't think you can really dispute that (maybe you don't think that would've happened before we invaded, but now that we've invaded, that certainly seems to be the case). Do you think the situation would improve if we left Iraq to shambles, allowing it to foster even more terrorist organizations?

Originally Posted by Ryan Foley

Loads of people didnt want us in Vietnam, and the same goes for Iraq. If the draft was activated, there would be a very large amount of people that would not go along with it. If it were an attack on the US itself and the war was in self defense, it would be a different story.

The war on terrorism is in self defense. We were blind-sided, and now we are fighting back. I realize some people don't agree with how the whole Iraq mess started ... and don't like where it's ended up. But surely you can see that the current situation in Iraq would foster anti-US terrorism if we left, allowing the radical sects to grow unchecked. And I'm sure there'd still be a large portion that wouldn't want to fight to defend their country. That is insubstantial. Further, there is no draft. It is illogical. But, as always, people like to lean on emotional, albeit insubstantiative arguments.

Originally Posted by Ryan Foley

I do not have an opion whether or not we should be in Iraq, but I do know that I am completely against making people fight. People are in charge of their lives, not our government. This country is supposed to be a place of freedom right? So why would they send people against their will to what could be their death. If they need more people, then send the people who actually support this war.

This country is supposed to be a place of freedom -- the draft is about keeping it that way in the gravest of circumstances. *We are not nearing a draft. Please calm down.* If our country is in dire threat, it certainly has a right to compel its citizens to defend it, admiteddly, though, this right must be used sparingly and only when other methods have been exhausted. Again, we are not nearing a draft. Yes, people are in charge of their lives, to a certain extent. The draft is about keeping it that way, not taking it away.

Originally Posted by Ryan Foley

Besides, look at one very important piece of information. The Iraq power handover from US to the new government is still set for June of this year. So if we are no longer in control of Iraq, the number of troops we need there would not be as large as it is now, so the draft wouldnt be needed.

The president has repeatedly said we will not back out when we hand over power. We will have a continued presence in Iraq. We will provide security. We will stay there at near current levels for the time being, but we are not nearing a draft. The resons for this have been listed in my previous posts ... and do not include the hand over of power (in the sense you intimate, anyway).

The debate in Iraq is complicated enough, and there aren't any easy answers ... but the whole thing gets muddled up when dealing with false information or faulty reasoning based on misleading information. Sorry if I seem to be taking it out on you; I just don't like the growing amount of misinformation I've noticed (elsewhere, and by other people).

[Ryan Foley]

Very good points mtrawls.

I see what you mean about how it can be considered as self defense, I guess it depends on how you look at the whole thing. I see it as it isnt 10% necessary to have that many troops there, some is good, I understand the reasoning for having them there, but to the extent of having to draft people is too much. Yes I know that there isnt going to be a draft.

I guess I should have deon more research on post-power handover, thanks for proving me wrong so I dont make the mistake again.

PS dont apologize, I know you arent "taking it out on me"

[RudimentaryPeni]

I highly doubt that the draft will start again, i think that it may just be propaganda by the left wing extremists so that kerry will look better. We do have a lot of troops there anyways and once the power is turned back to the iraqi people then we may get out of thier, if that is the new gov't wishes.

PS. Im Green Party... dont get me wrong!

[Pin Man]

hey... they gotta do what they gotta do to protect this great country... if there was no one to protect us then we would not be America but probably a colony of another country like we use to be... but I highly doubt that it will come back...