New Home for Nationals

[Greg Ross]

Originally posted by Jason_384
... I agree with what C said by goin to the olympic vilages! Thats a GREAT Idea.

The only problem I see with that is How are we going to rent out the places for first? These are just things we should think about and that we should really consider!

I'm afraid looking to former Olympic cities as sites for FIRST nationals will not get us very far (at least if we're expecting to be able to use the Olympic villages as housing for FIRST teams.) My impression is that Olympic villages get reused fairly quickly as low income housing or college dorms or the like. (Jason, is this the problem you were refering to when you ask "How are we going to rent out the places for first?") I don't think the former Olympic villages generally sit idle waiting for events like FIRST to come to town. Their reuse is one of the ways cities use to justify the expense of hosting an Olympics.

[Ben Mitchell]

Im sure FIRST could leave disney if it wanted too.

But maybe your right, what if there is a formal or informal contracts? Hmmm... the plot thickens...

Also, yes, alot of Olympic villages are turned into housing and such, so we'd have to find a recent one,or one that's still open to conventions. Oh well, worked in theory, I guess.

I still like the idea of the Nats going to Colledges though. Somewhere down south, for the weather, would be nice, but Florida is a bit hot. What about South Carolina or Atlanta, Georgia perhaps...I don't know what attractions are there, but still...

[Joe Menassa]

I love Disney! I don't like all this talk about "multiple nationals," I mean really, the purpose of nationals is for the whole nation to compete. You can't split up nationals because then they would be regionals- and we already have enough of those. I understand it is important to accept all the teams that want to go to Disney but you must be realistic. Not all the NFL teams go to the superbowl. The regionals are open to everyone and the way Nationals were done this year with qualifying is a great idea. Too many teams at nationals is not the best idea. Lets try and keep things simple.

[Ben Mitchell]

But the whole system of odds and evens stinks, becuase an even #ed team can never play an odd #ed team at the Nats, unless one of them wins big the year before. That stinks, esp. if teams are friendly across the country, and only meet directly at the Nats.

[Jason_384]

Gwross yes thats what I was talking about. From what I have seen the olympic villages are a great place for people to stay. Well.....Im not really sure I just think that getting away from disney might (I say MIGHT) be a good thing for first. The only problem I see with getting awaay from Disney is losing them as a sponser and then losing the little bit of ABC's coverage that we get.

Well thats about all for now. We should just talk about this!

Well cya later
Jason Melberg
Lead Programmer team 384

[Don Taylor]

Disney has been such a friend to FIRST that I can't imagine having the nationals anywhere else, however with that said it would probably be much more economical to have it a a facility that is already constructed, i.e. it has to be a tremendous expense to Disney to construct the playing field and pit area from scratch every year.

Don Taylor
M-n-M Team 343

[Jgreenwd1]

mabey we should bring it back to were it started here in manchester.

[Kit Gerhart]

Originally posted by Jgreenwd1
mabey we should bring it back to were it started here in manchester.

That would be ok, except that it would need to be in August. It is COLD in New Hampshire in early spring. I went to the Manchester regional in '98 and got snowed on.

[Ben Mitchell]

That's the reason why we'd want to have to somewhere warm

Snow, rain and chilly mornings may detract a bit from the experiance.

What about having the Nats in Washington D.C., Nation's capital and all? Anyplace there that can hold us? (oh no...security issues)

[Carolyn Duncan]

Originally posted by JoeM121
I love Disney! I don't like all this talk about "multiple nationals," I mean really, the purpose of nationals is for the whole nation to compete. You can't split up nationals because then they would be regionals- and we already have enough of those. I understand it is important to accept all the teams that want to go to Disney but you must be realistic. Not all the NFL teams go to the superbowl. The regionals are open to everyone and the way Nationals were done this year with qualifying is a great idea. Too many teams at nationals is not the best idea. Lets try and keep things simple.

If we go with this idea then we need brackets. Set up something like the NCAA bracket. If we are going to do this it needs to be done all the way. I personally don't want this to happen. I am hoping for some other solution.

[Curtis Williams]

I think that one big national is awesome. Being at nationals last year made KSC feel small this year. Regionals are great, but nationals is THE event. Our team is even-numbered so we wont have the option of going next year. (unless we win something, laff!) Even though disney provides so much to FIRST, I think that FIRST should look for somewhere that can handle everyone who wants to go to Nats.

I also like the idea of combining regionals, expecially if the even/odd system sticks. Regions just seem little and unimportant after nationals.

[Kyle Hill]

A thought.

Because this "nature of Nationals" debate has been raging nonstop since, oh, about three hours after FIRST released the new qualification requirements, I thought I'd offer a different point of view.

I happen to like the system FIRST has right now. Why? Only the best teams get to go, making for what (we all think) will be a more competitive National Championship. And by having to overcome stiffer competition to get there, winning Nationals means more. As it is right now, the teams who get berths are

-The ones who have proven themselves (Regional Champions)
-The ones who judges feel can complete with the best (4 Tech Award Winners)
-Teams who have proven themselves quite well in the past (returning champions and those who qualified on points)
-Teams with the best overall FIRST programs (Regional Chairman's Award winners, recent National Finalists, all prior National Winners, the "Original Seven")

And that's it. FIRST has made sure that the teams at Nationals are the best of the best, and that an invite to the competition carries with it an aire of prestige. My only problem is that there are quite a few teams who are going to Nationals and don't deserve to be there as much as the others.

Yeah, the even numbered teams. (And, in fairness, the odd ones next year.)

By having teams who didn't qualify for Nationals still be allowed to attend, FIRST is both ruining the prestige they're trying to build for it AND denying entry to half of it's teams simply on the basis of the random number they were assigned when signing up.

The proliferation of teams that wouldn't otherwise qualify greatly decreases the quality of the otherwise high-caliber event. Yet, good teams that should go can't, because they spend the entire year telling sponsors "Yeah, we probably can't go to Nationals this year because we're an odd team," and then go out and win a Regional. "Oh, now we can go? But we don't have any money left. Well, we were planning on next year anyway."

There's two solutions to this:

1. Drop the qualification requirements and somehow let everyone go. Whether 600 teams can converge onto Disney World at once is of course questionable. There's always the idea of bi-coastal Nationals... but getting back to the point, yes, let everyone experience the highest level of FIRST.

2. Drop the "spare slots can be filled by some teams" clause. By the basis of this really long, rambling post, you'd probably guessed by now that this is the option I'll argue for. What I think FIRST should do (as I assume they probably intended to, anyway) is use the current system for 2003, to compensate the odd-numbered teams, and then drop the "spare slots" clause starting in 2004.

I know the point was made some time ago about how that may be unfair to rookie teams, and I agree, it is, which is why I'd say coalesce the two Rookie All-Star Awards into one per Regional, and give the winners of that a berth at Nats. A large part of FIRST is supporting the rookie programs, you know?

Well, that's my two cents, though judging by the length of this post I think I foisted a couple quarters. I probably pissed off at least a few people, too. Flame away.

-Kyle

[Not2B]

OK..... new location.... not that I'm not excitied to go to Disney. This will be my first FIRST trip there, but I already know it rocks... I also think Disney is uniquely able to deal with us crazy robot people. But..... since we are talking about it....

What about America's Roller Coast? Ceder Po!nt.
It has more hotels around than it knows what to do with.
It has places for people to hang out (the parks).
It's close to the population center of the US (That's why there is a stupid-huge amount of tourist destinations in Ohio.

Anywho...
Heebie Geebie

[Kit Gerhart]

Originally posted by Not2B

What about America's Roller Coast? Ceder Po!nt.
It has more hotels around than it knows what to do with.
It has places for people to hang out (the parks).
It's close to the population center of the US (That's why there is a stupid-huge amount of tourist destinations in Ohio.

Anywho...
Heebie Geebie

It sounds like a fun place, but one where we would need to have National in June or July rather than April. Do they have a big stadium of some type to have the competition or would they need a temporary one like at Disney? Is there good transportation from the hotels to the park? If so, it might be a good "change of venue" to try.

[Natchez]

I love Disney for all of the obvious and selfish reasons BUT, as one who has recruited many teams that struggle financially, please allow me to enact a "Language Tool" from page 13 of FIRST's Mentoring Guide. Here goes ...

What would happen if ...

---The Nationals are open to all teams
---Cities bid to get the National Championships
---The NEW National Championship schedule would be something like
Thursday
8:00 - PITS Open
9:00 - Opening ceremonies
12:00 Noon - Practice rounds
12:00 Midnight - Practice rounds end
Friday
12:00 Midnight - Seeding Rounds Begin
12:00 Midnight - PITS Close
Saturday
12:00 Midnight - SLEEP, SLEEP, & more SLEEP
6:00 AM - Seeding Rounds Continue
1:00 PM - Elimination Rounds
6:00 PM - Closing ceremonies
8:00 PM - PARTY 'til you drop
Sunday
Travel day


Notes:
The bid selection criteria would encompass things like cost to FIRST, cost to teams, weather, logistics, etc. I would expect that bidders who create a low-cost FIRST village with lots of corporate money going to FIRST would be highly considered. Heck, along with traditional hotels, how about providing a campground (campers, tents, etc.) for those who like the great outdoors.

Although the schedule may be a weeeeeeeee ridiculous, you get the idea. Currently at Nationals, the real reason that the students and mentors go to Disney World is that FIRST is CLOSED for the day. If the FIRST complex is open 24 hours a day, then there is no need for alternative entertainment. Since we stay up all night working on the 'bots, why not stay up all night running the 'bots.

Just trying to think "out of the box",
Lucien