New Terrorism inspired Fourth of July Fireworks

[David Kelly]

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

I have no problem with blowing up the heads of presidents. This is a great way to show your patriotism for [oppressive terroristic regime] while getting your chance to kill a president.

Seriously, as long as you are willing to allow anyone to burn anyone else's effigy, go right on ahead with Osama.

Protected free speech, is a good thing, after all. Advocating blowing up peoples' (real) heads, somewhat less so.

(Note to Secret Service: Go away. It's not for real.)

1. capital punnishment is legal in America
2. Saddam raped murdered thousands of his own people
3. OBL was indicted by a grand jury in the '98 US embassy bombings and is worth 25,000,000 [dead or alive]
4. putting a president and terrorist in a same category is sickning
5. don't mess with the secret service. nothing is a joke to them (one of my HS teachers could tell you a story about it)

In conclusion, I'm going to buy some fireworks and blow up some terrorists this weekend because I can.

[DanL]

Originally Posted by David Kelly

[color=DarkRed] putting a president and terrorist in a same category is sickning

Actually, they're both quite the same thing.

*sigh* I don't want to turn this into another political debate; you know well enough by now where my views lie on this. I just want to say for once try and view the world from other peoples' perspectives...

to you Saddam is a terrorist... to others Saddam is their president.

to you Bush is your president... to others Bush is a terrorist.

So whats the difference between a terrorist and a president? Perception. They say history is nothing more than the winners' story; it all comes down to perception.

Don't worry... I'm not advocating Saddam is a good man or that terrorists nurture and raise cute innocent adorable puppies in their down-time... I'm just saying there is a reason that people feel the way they do, and maybe you should try and understand them rather than hate them right back.

After all, you know the ol' cliche... nothing quite like fighting fire with fire.

Yeehaw!

[J Flex 188]

Far be it from me to play devil's advocate here, or take the role of a loony liberal that seems to be so beloved in the United States, but your replies lack a certain fore and afterthought that can usually be found with a chiefdelphi posting.

The 5 points you stated don’t really seem to add much to your argument that you can blow up those effigies, but they merely reinforce the stubborn stonewalling and "I'm Right No Matter What" attitude that provokes angst, frustration and is arguably the root of resentment among countries that the United States seems to have serious differences with.

Seriously, the most mind boggling of your statements is that putting a terrorist and a president in the same category is sickening. Is that not what we have done with Hussein, Milosevic, arguably any Soviet or Iron Curtain leader? Replace the word President with Prime Minister, Leader, what have you, it is the same situation.

Messing with the secret service? The very fact that you posted that underlines just how draconian the entire DoJ has become. Speak to any immigrant of any visible minority, or to the poor Tibetan monk who was denied any access to a lawyer, put in solitary for over a year and a half for taking tourist shots of New York before being released based on the pleading of the FBI agent who turned him in, in the first place. They can tell you not to mess with the secret service all you want.

The fact that "You Can" doesn’t mean that "You Should" nor "I am Right Because I Can", maybe adding a little dimension to your way of thinking might clear those differences up.

[jonathan lall]

I too am bothered by these points, and feel I must co-defend the devil with my young friend. Luckily, I don't think this thread can really go off-topic, considering the way Elgin baited us all.

Originally Posted by David Kelly

1. capital punnishment is legal in America

Yes. It is. While that's not what Tristan was talking about in any way (don't group us together in opinion by the way; they're different), it should still be noted that most states have progressed culturally and socially enough to outlaw this. Another time, perhaps.

Originally Posted by David Kelly

2. Saddam raped murdered thousands of his own people

I highly doubt Saddam raped, murdered, or "raped murdered" (heh heh) thousands of his own people. His subordinates attacked the Shi'ites and the Kurds, who were included in his country not by his choice, and rude as it may seem, they were not his people. A nation is supposed to be formed on the basis of cultural values that are similar, and Iraq certainly wasn't an example of this. Neither is Canada for that matter, but Quebec seperatism is a great microcosm for that phenomenon.

Moreover, this genocide was catalyzed by the Gulf War and Western policy, which directly and indirectly killed more of his people than Saddam did anyway. Now it's absolutely true that political enemies were killed and tortured without hesitation under the Ba'ath party in huge numbers, but we should ask ourselves a question, being patriotic Americans: would we care about those people if there wasn't mad cheddah involved?

Originally Posted by David Kelly

3. OBL was indicted by a grand jury in the '98 US embassy bombings and is worth 25,000,000 [dead or alive]

Yup, public Enemy #1. That he is. But then again, so is Bush in all those countries with less-important people. </sarcasm>

Originally Posted by David Kelly

4. putting a president and terrorist in a same category is sickning

Define terrorist.
.
.
.
.
Good, now which criterion does Bush not fit? As was said earlier, perspective is everything. I'd love to know the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter. I wonder if Pervez Musharraf would be a terrorist if he didn't support the USA...

Originally Posted by David Kelly

5. don't mess with the secret service. nothing is a joke to them (one of my HS teachers could tell you a story about it)

My brother is silly. I'm petrified of D'Agustino.

Still, another good excercise in definitions is to define patriot (hint: not the movie, and not the missile). That word is so often misused in the States that the malapropism has filtered into Canadian politics. It bugs me. Michael Moore is a patriot, even though he has dissenting views relative to his president, who by the way is not automatically a patriot. The fact that he wants to improve and loves his country makes him a patriot. Whether he's right or wrong is a completely different issue from Right or Left.

[Cory]

It's freedom of speech, and I dont particularly care, so whatever, go at it.

Originally Posted by jonathan lall

My brother is silly. I'm petrified of D'Agustino.

Nice Clancy reference

Cory