A Slashdot Comment

[phrontist]

I am curious to hear what the CD community thinks of the following comment found on slashdot :

It'll be like that until everyone realize that it takes a scientist to properly control output of other scientists.

I'm an engineer you insensitive clod!

Joking aside, I think it's important to point out that what we need a lot of are engineers, not scientists. Scientists are wonderful people who advance our knowledge from a 50,000 foot level, and do so for little pay. These guys dream math calculations that make my mind gloss over just thinking about it.

Engineers OTOH, use a combination of scientific research and intuition to develop real and practical devices that advance civilization. Most of these guys are also very smart, but from a far more practical standpoint. Their job is to use all that research done by really smart scientists to exploit the laws of nature for the purpose of creating advanced machines that can do "work". (In CompSci, that would be a matter of applying the proper data structures and formulas to derive a computational machine that does work.)

The primary difference here is that Scientists tend to do the research because they love it. They have a keen insight into the universe and its working, and generally won't stop research even if they can't find funding. In addition, country borders rarely mean anything to their research. They could be American, Russian, Indian, British, French, or whatever. When their research gets published, everyone benefits.

Engineers (being more practical by nature) tend to aim for either the fortune of working for hire, or the fame of engineering some really amazing project. Their focus is to find a way to achieve whatever goals are put in front of them. I could tell some Aerospace engineers that I wanted to colonize Alpha Centauri, and they should be able to tell me how it can be done, how long it will take, what technologies must be developed, and at what cost. The idea that it *can't* be done is not the way they think. It's only about whether someone is willing to fund the project to its needs.

While I'm painting something of a rosy picture here, I do have a point to this rant. The US is losing *engineers* for various reasons. One reason is lower pay. Another reason is today's poor education system that often denies potential engineers from becoming such. The most damaging thing, however, is the continuously laxing standards for "engineers". A construction worker is not an engineer. Neither is a programmer a "software engineer". Yet kids fresh out of school have scented money, and said "I'll be an engineer! I'll cram my way through the schoolwork, then I can stop learning because no one will ever make me prove myself again!" As a result, the signal to noise ratio of engineers is ever dropping.

I'm not sure what the solution is yet, but I do know one thing: we need a different system for separating the wheat from the chaff. Traditional thinking says that School Degree == Knows His Stuff. Yet the reality is that you have a lot of people who go to school, but aren't really qualified for the job. At the other end of the spectrum, you have a lot of people who've made use of today's information mediums to become qualified without a degree. It's all a very confused situation.

So, can any real world engineers comment on the last paragraphs?

[Adam Y.]

I'm not sure what the solution is yet, but I do know one thing: we need a different system for separating the wheat from the chaff. Traditional thinking says that School Degree == Knows His Stuff. Yet the reality is that you have a lot of people who go to school, but aren't really qualified for the job. At the other end of the spectrum, you have a lot of people who've made use of today's information mediums to become qualified without a degree. It's all a very confused situation.

Arggg... I had a post but I lost it. Anyway here is the abrevated version of it. What information mediums?? There are virtually none anymore. Forty years ago there used to be when Radio Shack was an actual electronics store. Though it is possible to learn about the computers but nothing else really through books. I don't even agree with the reasons why engineering is on the decline. The career is just starting to exit from a dark era where people hated the profession. They felt that engineers where immoral and that technology would result in our demise.

[mtrawls]

Originally Posted by phrontist

I am curious to hear what the CD community thinks of the following comment found on slashdot :

+5, interesting

Or perhaps you want something a bit more thoughtful? Long term solution? Reform our pathetic education system that encourages mediocrity, rewards incompetence, and punishes the gifted (refers to pre-university education, since I haven't yet experienced college). Short term fix? Eh, all you can really do is worry about yourself, ... make sure *you* know your stuff, and you should be fine, -- and actually, if no one else does but you, you'd actually be in a better position for a job

[Astronouth7303]

A construction worker is not an engineer. Neither is a programmer a "software engineer".

I resent that.

What he fails to mention is that computers are the basis of many engineers job. Computers have revolutionized engineering. But it wasn't the traditonal engineers who made the software to do it. it was the programmers, the 'engineer-wanna-bes'. yes, the engineers had input, but it was the programmers who did it.

And without us programmers, FIRST would be using hobbiest remotes, none of this gyroscopicly corrected steering stuff, or PID control loops, or IR beacons.

Heck, without the software engineers, we wouldn't be sitting here writting this.

[Greg McCoy]

Originally Posted by Adam Y.

What information mediums?? There are virtually none anymore.

Maybe you're being sarcastic and I'm just not getting it, but aren't you accessing an awesome, incredible information medium that didn't much exist 10-15 years ago? The idea that there is less information now than there used to be about engineering and science and technology seems kinda false. How about the Internet, (good) cable TV programs, open-source software development...the list goes on and on. Besides, I've read lots of old technical books. They can still be relevant and useful...and most are probably still around at the library.

Oh, and Astronouth, computer programmers are probably some of the most underappreciated workers on the planet. Few understand what they do, and hardly anybody really sees their work, which will likely become obsolete in a matter of years. Unfortunately, it's something you'll probably have to get used to

[Al Skierkiewicz]

All of you have heard Dean and Woodie's speeches about engineering jobs going unfilled in this country. As each day goes by that becomes less true as many engineering jobs move off shore. For the near term, engineers in under developed countries (former Soviet Bloc, China, India, etc.) are screaming for work at any pay and are willing (and able ) to work for less pay than their US counterparts. While US law allows employers to go offshore for engineering needs, US engineers are finding themselves on the unemplyment line. (some right here in the First community, sadly). When economic conditions change to a point where engineers are needed in those countries or when those engineers demand a higher wage and benefits, engineering will shift back to our soil. As someone pointed out at IRI this weekend, a firm with 6 engineers working day and night for months on a problem, could turn to an Indian company for help. Potentially, that firm could put 600 engineers on the problem and turn out a solution in a couple of days for less cost. Please note that it could turn out a solution, not necessarily the best solution. The "world economy" we are finding ourselves in currently will change at some point and that time is coming soon. As the shift in wages and demand balance out so will the need for engineers and scientists in all countries. The European Union is the next major economic force and it is coming on fast. With the addition of the former Soviet Bloc countries and eastern Mediterranean, the consumer market in the EU will be huge. Those companies that plan for that day will make out in a big way. Those that fail to see the future will be left on the side of the road.
If I could drive the country for a while, I would put some R & D into alternatives for oil. As the world's reserves are used up, there needs to be alternatives (cheap) for plastics, synthetics and other by-products of oil as well as alternative fuels and efficient engines that use what is left. As a young engineer, I believe there is a real future in these areas.