Kettering University Rookie Robotics Team

[meaubry]

Ambitious undertaking - good-luck, but John states many truths.
If things don't work out, consider mentoring existing local teams - experienced FIRST mentors should consider this option as it allows the person to customize/balance the amount of involvement with the rest of their life goals. As a "local" team, we would be a stretch, but weekends are prime time involvement, so.... if it doesn't work out, give me a call we have a mentor program for college students.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by meaubry

If things don't work out, consider mentoring existing local teams - experienced FIRST mentors should consider this option as it allows the person to customize/balance the amount of involvement with the rest of their life goals. As a "local" team, we would be a stretch, but weekends are prime time involvement, so.... if it doesn't work out, give me a call we have a mentor program for college students.

Mike is dead on.
I see this as the true "success" formula for college FIRST.

This way, you can help mentor a team. Give back to the kids. Learn a TON from the existing mentors. Grow as a person. AND... Not be overly responsible for things, so it interferes in your schooling.
(Like if the robot isn't finished, but you REALLY need to take some meetings off to study for Thermo, you know the job will still get done without you.)

Often, the toughest part of being a college mentor is the "obligation" to finish the job. I have conciously sacrificed my academics because I felt pressure not to let my team down, and not to let my kids down. This pressure shouldn't fall on a college student (imho). It is way, WAY too easy to let other things slide for FIRST.


Thank you Mike.
JV

[dachickindapit]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

For the sole purpose that my sister goes to the school, I believe I know the answer to that. At Kettering, there are 2 different sessions, A and B. They each attend school for 3 month periods, and then work for a company as a coop for the next 3 months. I believe that the current Kettering team is the B session's team, and that Alex is a member of the A session. Therefore, he is not at school during the currently sponsored team's sponsorship. It's basically like 2 different schools.

I am the Kettering student that Beth mentions. Dan is right about the time frame, so the Kettering students who are mentors are on their work terms, not in school. I would never try to mentor the team (any team) during school term. Alex, I know you have great ambition, but I don't think you realize what Kettering and Kettering's messed-up schedule is going to do to you. Like others before me have said, give it a year, or help out at the events. You don't have to be a mentor or a student on a team to keep FIRST in your life and continue to have an impact on other people involved.

As a member of team 67 for many years, I'd agree with Dan's comment that not many Kettering students (if any!) participate on team 70 (our pits are often next/near to each other). By the time FIRST season rolls around, you'll have a feel for your new school and you can decide how much time you can commit. Then I would advise to help the existing teams in the area. If you want to thank Kettering, give that team a hand! Every team, in my opinion, can use people with knowledge and enthusiasm. I know some students on teams in the area, and they would love your help.

[Alexander McGee]

Allow me to clear things up a little.

I am more than willing to extend our efforts to team 70. However, their team in concentrated in Flint.

We already have students from a different area (Oakland county and Macomb county) helping set up the new team. Parents, engineers and students; all with exceptional corporate connections. These people heard about what we wanted to do, and ran with it. We're moving along quite nicely.

Basically, we want to set up a team that these high school students who are helping us can join. I do not know of the requirements of team 70, but i believe it is limited to Carmen Ainsworth.

[Amanda Morrison]

I have never known a team to turn down 'exceptional' corporate sponsorship.

I also have not known a team unwilling to accept more students.

It sounds like you have not done a lot of research or talked extensively with Team 70. Maybe you could talk to them a bit and see what they think of your endeavor? Should they have the kids, the money, and the effort behind them, you could be in need of another team... however, intuition tells me this may not be the case.

[Chris Fultz]

8/18 -

Originally Posted by magnasmific

Friends,

This team is designed on the ideals of what we consider to be, the perfect team structure. One of our biggest complaints with our previous FIRST experiences was the structure of the teams. We felt that the students did not get as much of an experience as they could have, had they been in a system where their input was considered. In simplicity, it is a democracy.

We are straying from the politics of team structure, and letting the students structure themselves. We want fewer parents and engineers working on the robot, and more student involvement.

We plan to have a group of Kettering Students mentor the team. No engineers, no politics, no one in it for the wrong reasons.

Yet it seems you have already decided a lot of the team structure.

8/20-

Originally Posted by magnasmific

We already have students from a different area (Oakland county and Macomb county) helping set up the new team. Parents, engineers and students; all with exceptional corporate connections. These people heard about what we wanted to do, and ran with it. We're moving along quite nicely.

But now you have all these parents and engineers and corporate connections - you are forming the type of team you said you wanted to avoid!
***

The majority of the comments in this forum are exceptional and show true maturity from some of the current FIRST college all-stars. Their wisdom should be taken to heart.

I am really bothered about the implication that mentors and engineers ruin a team and spoil everything for the students. The engineers and mentors provide the "I" in FIRST and FIRST would be nowhere near where it is today without this exceptional leadership shown by so many of these volunteers. Anyone can get together and build a robot - that is entirely not the point - the learning and inspiration into science and technology needs the mentors to happen. I will stop here, there are plenty of other posts on the "I" and what it means.

As I said above - listen to your college student peers - they have been where you are today.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by magnasmific

Anywho, we're not really pulling students from Flint. We are primarily going for schools not involved with robotics; (Oakland Christian, Brandon, Marist, ect.). As well as home schooled students.

Brandon has a team (1010) and Marist is the middle school attached to Notre Dame Prep, where Team 33 hails from.

Unless there is another Marist or Brandon?

[Mr. Lim]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

8/18 -

I am really bothered about the implication that mentors and engineers ruin a team and spoil everything for the students. The engineers and mentors provide the "I" in FIRST and FIRST would be nowhere near where it is today without this exceptional leadership shown by so many of these volunteers. Anyone can get together and build a robot - that is entirely not the point - the learning and inspiration into science and technology needs the mentors to happen. I will stop here, there are plenty of other posts on the "I" and what it means.

As I said above - listen to your college student peers - they have been where you are today.

Okay, here goes... I have been where these guys are.

I was one of the first recipients of Kettering University's (it was still called "GMI" when I applied, and used to be called "General Motors Institute" before that) scholarship in 1998. I was a B-section student.

If you've read this thread, being a B-section student all but excluded me from being involved with Kettering's original FIRST team (Team 70). This is because Kettering is a co-op school where B-section goes to work in the Winter and Summer months, which entirely encompasses build period. I happend to be working in North Carolina, and just couldn't bring myself to make the commute back to Michigan .

Nothing makes me happier to hear Kettering/GMI has another robotics team.

Needless to say, while I absolutely sympathize with the state of affairs of Team 70, I also understand why starting a team with schools OUTSIDE of Flint has garnered SO MUCH more support than for their current team based within Flint.

The explanation for this conundrum cannot be expressed in a few sentences or even paragraphs on CD, but I suspect there is method to the madness behind starting a second team with support outside of Flint. Live in Flint for 4-5 years like these Kettering freshmen will, and you will understand. If you are unable/unwilling to do so, please save your criticism.

Don't get me wrong. In general, I'm not one for throwing in the towel, or abandoning those in need. Ironically however, it is the engineer in me that says: there is an opportunity to spread FIRST to more students in a much more viable manner. Given the option between A) and B), where B) is far more likely to succeed, I'd ABET us engineers would focus our efforts on B).

Lastly, the perception of engineers and mentors being detrimental to the team is false. However, if these young Kettering students are doing what Kettering students do: they're already making a LOT of real engineers at their co-op companies nervous. I don't mean to sound conceited, but when you have a kid able who's proficient in IDEAS/SolidEdge/ProE/CATIA/whatever Kettering hammers into you 1st term, and is doing a finite element analysis on your newest decklid and blueprinting your tooling for less than half the price of the real engineer, and can socialize and be respected by the workers because the student is just a kid and isn't "above them", and who is also loved by management because they are GREAT for the bottom line...

these aren't your typical students Mr. Fultz.

At this stage in the game, I would take a handful of Kettering students over a handful of mediocre engineers. Without hesitation.

If their experience is panning out to be anything like mine was, they're already highly-mature people who are interested in getting things done, doing it well, and not being afraid to make a tough decision like starting a second, more viable team outside of Flint, despite what the CD mentor community will think of them "turning their backs" on the original team.

My $.03

-SlimBoJones...

[Alexander McGee]

Originally Posted by SlimBoJones

If their experience is panning out to be anything like mine was, they're already highly-mature people who are interested in getting things done, doing it well, and not being afraid to make a tough decision like starting a second, more viable team outside of Flint, despite what the CD mentor community will think of them "turning their backs" on the original team.
-SlimBoJones...

Thank you for your kind words. It really means a lot to have someone describe what I can't. Kettering definitely isn't your average university.

Though i understand the benefits of having engineers help with a team, I am straying away from it. Why? Because I want the kids in charge of their robot. I have seen too many teams where engineers are working in the pits and the students stand by and watch. It doesn't matter to me if we win, I want them to walk away with something more valuable than that.

We have, however, been blessed with some excellent professors at Kettering who are going to assist us in the machine shop, and even train our high schoolers on the functions of the machines. Kettering has been more than generous to us.

I understand and appreciate the concern of the more "experienced" members of chiefdelphi, but we've got a handle on things. We have raised the money, have the kids, have the tools, have the support, and have the drive to do it. We're just a bunch of college kids who love FIRST.

For the record, we had tried to contact Team 70, and "join forces", but they were unwilling to accept our already highly motivated students. Their team filled up too quickly.

Check us, and our students, out http://metalmuscle.org

Thanks again,

-axe