I am being censored by Chief Delphi.

[aFIRSTfan]

Firstfan please contact the moderators.

[David Kelly]

dude, you are making it worse!!! if you have been removed there is a reason for it. this kind of behavior is detromental to the boards.

[aFIRSTfan]

Have you read the "Chief Delphi attended three regionals?" thread? What of what I said wasn't the truth?

It was my intent to flood this forum with useful information, not baseless rumors and innuendo. I believe I have accomplished that goal. Several others have verbally agreed.

Why Chief Delphi believes I have provided a disservice to this forum, I will never understand.

Anyway, I'm done. I am certain this thread will be removed soon, and with it, FIRSTfan will cease to exist.

Again, thank you to everyone who understood what I was trying to tell the community.

Goodbye,

FIRSTfan

[Wetzel]

Team 000 was intended for those without a team, or alumni no longer associated with a team, but still following FIRST.
It was not intended to be a place for anonymous cowards.

If you are going to say something, stand out in the open.

Also, Mr. Mike, the tracking trick isn't all that hard, and that message seems to be intimidating.
I think both sides (FIRSTfan and Mike and everyone else) should stop, take a breath, and reread what you have both written. Try to see it from the others point of view.
Then think before responding.
I've found out the hard way that thinking before responding is the way to go.

Sorry if I seem to be condescending, but this is getting ugly, and Iwould rather not see this in the FIRST community, or anywhere for that matter.

[Jason Morrella]

quote:
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But with all the facts I have presented, am I to believe that I deserve to be treated the same way?
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Yes - you keep saying you have presented facts, when it has been proven that your original claim (implying that Team 47 was given secret/preferential treatment by FIRST) was completely unfounded and very untrue. Myself and a few others tried to provide you with the facts (such as the information being public and availble to all on the FIRST web site), but you choose to ignore the facts and continue to make childish accusations. instead of saying "thanks, my bad, I should have checked the FIRST web page for info or asked team 47 for info before making such a rash assumption" you still ignored the fact that the information was available to all teams the entire time - no one can make you or other teams monitor the information on the FIRST web page - that is your responsibility.

quote:
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Good luck to all those seeking fairness from FIRST in the future. Keep pressuring them with constructive criticism, and they will have no choice but to listen and change their ways.
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It is unfortunate you are such a glass is half empty/negative person. FIRST REQUESTS constructive criticism, listens to it every year, and makes changes every year. It is too bad you are only able to focus on one or two mistakes (which are natural and made each year) but are unable to recognize the MANY positive changes and aspects of FIRST. It is important to recognize positives as well as negatives - that is how a community continues to improve. You say you are a FIRST fan, so you must recognize that FIRST does hundreds of good things for every one bad rule or mistake made each year, and hopefully you are able recognize all the good improvements made.

quote:
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Seems rather cheap and petty to me. I was not aware that Chief Delphi operated in this manner.
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You are part right, your criticisms of Team 47 have been petty and cheap. Mike Martus did what you should have done in the first place. He e-mailed you privately so as not to try to embarrass or ridicule you in a public forum without first giving you the chance to explain yourself or address the situation. He did the honorable and respectful thing of addressing you directly, not posting it for public viewing - a skill and trait you can learn from. You chose to make assumptions and accusations in public instead of taking them up privately to ensure you first get all the right information. Team47 did NOTHING but ask you to be accountable and responsible for your posts. If you want to accuse them of censorship because they expect you to be like everyone else - that is up to you. If you noticed - all the other contributors in this and other threads - such as Ed, Mike, myself, Mike, and all the others share our different opinions and ideas openly. You seem to have something to hide or are not proud of your posts, or you would be willing to put your identity with them. Chief Delphi has created a board in which everyone can share ideas and different opinions - all they asked of you was to be accountable and responsible for your posts like everyone else and not try to hide behind an annonomous name.

I hope you stay in the FIRST community, because you can learn a lot by the gracious professionalism and unselfishness of many in FIRST (Mike, Mike, Joe, Andy, and other Delphi people in addition to hundreds of other quality people on MANY FIRST teams come to mind - I know I have learned a lot from getting to know some of these people over the past few years). Maybe you would be happier and feel more at home in a Battlebots atmosphere - but I encourage you to stay in FIRST, to share your opinions in a respectful, responsible, and accountable manner, and to benefit from sharing ideas in a positive manner with many great people. It is your choice, but I honestly think if you step back and think about it, you may realize your comments are a bit out of line and a little on the defensive/paranoid side - especially for someone unwilling to attach their name/reputation/integrity to their posts. If you are going to Orlando FIRSTfan, feel free to stop bye and say hi. I'd be happy to buy you lunch and I would be happy to discuss some of your concerns & share ideas in a constructive manner so I could better understand where you are coming from.

To Mike, Mike, Joe and the rest of team 47. Thank you for providing such a great resource to the FIRST community - I am always amazed by your contributions and continuing efforts - especially your ability to put up with petty comments, jealousy, and ungracious behavior when it is unfairly directed at your team.

Team 47 and FIRST - Keep up the great work! Look forward to seeing everyone in Orlando.

JM

[ChrisH]

Did I really do anything to warrant such shoddy treatment by Team 47?

Yes, you violated one of the rules of this PRIVATE forum by not using a recognizable identity to post in the first place. You must realize that the right of free speech only applies in PUBLIC places.
This is a private place, though Team 47 has chosen to invite us in. The least you could do is be polite to your hosts.

Mr Martus graciously gave you the chance to "come clean" privately before he took further action. You have chosen to scoff at and insult him for his pains. This marks you as a fool and therefore not worth listening to further. I hope he does publish all your accounts, I want to know who to ignore in the future.

[Ben Mitchell]

That was cowardly. Hopefully we won't have to endure more of such slander.

In all my experiance, all of Cheif Delphi I've seen is a personification of FIRST, from the messags boards to their robot.

Keep up the good work guys, It does'nt matter how many regionals you go to . It's cowards that hide behind pseudonyms and animity that leave a malignant taint.

--Ben Mitchell

[Ben Mitchell]

well said, ChrisH, very well said.

[Matt Reiland]

I hope this gets resolved.

I have a special respect for the Chief and all its members for all of the technical help they provide here and even more for the inspiration they give our team by creating such a wonderful robot that always seems to be able to do everything. It is and will be a benchmark for many teams for a very long time.

The worst part about this whole thing is that 47 was singled out when I know of a bunch more teams that also went to 3 regionals. WMR would have sucked if there were any fewer teams there (something like 44)

[rees2001]

Is this what FIRST is all about now? What somebody else gets? I love this program for what it has meant to my students, their parents & our school. Sure our team has it's growing pains but even when faced with "unfair" circumstances we looked at the situation & grow from it. We will grow as will FIRST.

There is one thing I can really remember my father ever telling me when I grew up.
"Life is not fair, learn to deal with it."

If you're in this to "win" you've alredy lost.

[Joe Matt]

Althoug Dean might know 47 better than 384, that's no excuse for a cover-up. Give me a good example that is proven, and I will change my position.

I think ChiefDelphi was correct in editing his post, but this raises a question, will Chief Delphi just edit/delet a post if it pertains to them in a negative way, true of false? And what if another team had a problem on the boards with negative comentary. Will Chief Delphi come to the rescue there or not? Will they just shurg their sholders, or will they do somthing about it?

[Joe Johnson]

On a number of occassions, we have taken down messages that speak ill of teams other than our own. We have sometimes done this on our own, we have sometimes done this at the request of the slandered team, we have sometimes done this at the request of team leaders from the team that the message writer was from.

I have not seen the message before it was removed and I have not spoken to Mike Martus yet about this so I don't know why he edited it.

From what I have read, FIRSTFan's major failing was his unwillingness to put his name behind his words. My friend, teammate and co-work, Mike Aubry, took the words more to heart than I would have. I would not have responded so harshly, but at least Mike had the courage to identify his words.


Here is the bottom line for me: Assuming the facts were as FIRST fan presented, your beef should not be with us (or the other teams that added a regional) but with FIRST. We asked FIRST, not as a special favor to us, but if it were possible in general. It was our understanding from FIRST that this was a general policy change (though we did not learn of it until just before shipping our robot from the Cleveland venue).

I am sorry that they were given a different answer than we (and several other teams) were given when they asked if they could go to an additional regional. This should not have been the case.

I hope that FIRST will improve communications in the future.

Joe J.

[Joe Matt]

On a number of occassions, we have taken down messages that speak ill of teams other than our own. We have sometimes done this on our own, we have sometimes done this at the request of the slandered team, we have sometimes done this at the request of team leaders from the team that the message writer was from.

Good, thats all I wanted to know.

[Mike Norton]

). Maybe you would be happier and feel more at home in a Battlebots atmosphere

Please don't send a person like this to battlebots.

[Mark_lyons]

My two cents.

I have been around a long time. I have seen a lot.

In my opinion, Team 47 is UNFAIRLY judged. Not by all, by a small, jealous few.

They are all about FIRST, and we should all thank them. They have taken FIRST to a new level. On the field, they are a fierce competitor in which we have fought with on numerous occasions, and also have partnered with as an alliance, it's been a pleasure. When it comes to the game, they, like all of us want to win. From where I sit, they just happen to do it more than the rest of us. They make us ALL better! I only wish they could compete in as many regionals as their funds will allow. To be the best, you have to beat the best, and they are the best!

Off the field, I don't think there is a team that does more for the FIRST community. I don't think this is a stretch, but I would bet that if prior to a match an opponents robot was not working, they would do whatever possible to help them, no matter how tough an opponent. And that is only a small example.

I applaude Team 47 and everything they stand for. Keep up the GREAT work!