Favorite quotes on CD gear!

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Astronouth7303

And (unfortunately for you) ChiefDelphi is the name of the forum, too.

Unfortunately for you, if you don't have the team's permission to use its name, I doubt you'll find many people buying these items.

ChiefDelphi is not in the public domain. Don't pretend it is.

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

Unfortunately for you, if you don't have the team's permission to use its name, I doubt you'll find many people buying these items.

ChiefDelphi is not in the public domain. Don't pretend it is.

Nor is it copyright legally. I mean really, if the dinamic Martus duo say 'OK' then I think the shirts will be fine. Lets have some fun with this.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Nor is it copyright legally. I mean really, if the dinamic Martus duo say 'OK' then I think the shirts will be fine. Lets have some fun with this.

The name is copyright immediately upon its first use. A service or trade mark would be most useful in defending brand name visibility, however.

What difference does it make, really? We are not on team 47, nor do we do any of the work to maintain this site. To even imagine for a moment that we're entitled to any of the awareness, fame, or recognition associated with it is little more than stupidity.

[David Kelly]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

The name is copyright immediately upon its first use. A service or trade mark would be most useful in defending brand name visibility, however.

What difference does it make, really? We are not on team 47, nor do we do any of the work to maintain this site. To even imagine for a moment that we're entitled to any of the awareness, fame, or recognition associated with it is little more than stupidity.

M is absolutely correct on this one. You don't have to 'officially' copyright a name, phrase, brand to retain rights to it. ChiefDelphi, the team, must protect the name and image of Delphi Corporation. I don't think Delphi would be happy if somebody went out and unresponsibily said something that would hurt their image.

Plus, it's just out of respect of Delphi and CheifDelphi that you don't try to go out there and use their name and image to make money or sell something with their name on it. FIRST asks permission to use quotes from the site in the program books every year. If obtain permission from ChiefDelphi to use their name and quotes off their site to sell stuff, then you may do it. I highly doubt they would agree to that without knowing what exactly will be done. Image is everything.

Astronouth7303, use your head and think about what you are doing.

[Joe Matt]

I'll throw in the towel before this gets bad, but I just want to say that you can make a shirt with my quote on it. I give you permission.

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

I'm gonna say the idea of using a Cd shirt is unreasonable, but Jamie (Astronauth) if you are really interested in this quote idea which is pretty cool, just make it a quote shirt. You don't have to use someone's brand name to make a tshirt. Print "w00t" on the front and then the quotes on the back, and you're good to go!

There is no way to disgrace the name of "w00t". . I, hopefully along with other members of the Chief Delphi community, trust your judgement on quotes that would be appropriate to bring to a Robotics event.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Eugenia Gabrielov

I'm gonna say the idea of using a Cd shirt is unreasonable, but Jamie (Astronauth) if you are really interested in this quote idea which is pretty cool, just make it a quote shirt. You don't have to use someone's brand name to make a tshirt. Print "w00t" on the front and then the quotes on the back, and you're good to go!

There is no way to disgrace the name of "w00t". . I, hopefully along with other members of the Chief Delphi community, trust your judgement on quotes that would be appropriate to bring to a Robotics event.

I have a perfectly family friendly quote to add here

"Y'know, I'd much rather have big balls than hang myself"-Fotoplasma

Funniest quote ever on CD, without a doubt.

Cory

[EddieMcD]

Originally Posted by Eugenia Gabrielov

I'm gonna say the idea of using a Cd shirt is unreasonable, but Jamie (Astronauth) if you are really interested in this quote idea which is pretty cool, just make it a quote shirt. You don't have to use someone's brand name to make a tshirt. Print "w00t" on the front and then the quotes on the back, and you're good to go!

Originally Posted by Astronouth7303

Ok, if I (or someone else) were to make a shirt for the ChiefDelphi forums, what quote would you want on it? the random spotlights are a good place to start, but doesn't have to be. It can be anything, just has to be from ChiefDelphi. (Engineering Slogans is also a good place to look)

I'm looking for humorous things that show a bit of personallity or a memorable thread.

Yeeeeeeeeessssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You asked for it!

• "random? well I could be random, look just watch me be random. I am so random I have said the word random 4 times so far. Well 5 now. See I am not boring I can be random... Now 6!" -Sean McDermott from 271
• "When in doubt, duct tape, duck tape, duckt tape!" -Mike Rosalie from 375
• "Life is short and so am I!" -Becky Allen from 356
• "VVVVVVVVV" -Lenny from 375
• "Okay Eddie, from now on, we're calling you Woodie." -Dave Ferera from 121
• "What can I say? The light goes on...the light goes off...Enough Said!" -Lora Knepper from 177
• "Nobody should miss the National Clogging Competition.....lol" -Clark Gilbert from 45
• "I became a member of the Duct Tape Club today. I think everyone else should. It would be cool" -David Kelly from 234
• "Woah..what's a life? I've never had one of those before" -Angela Hall from 180
• "Life is like a party and parties weren't meant to end!" -Elgin Clock from 237
• "What's a sponser? Oh, you get money from those..." -Andrew Costka from 419
• "don't ask me, I'm not even sure if I met you =)" -Kristen from 180
• "but if she's in a state that doesn't exist, then how could i have met a person who doesn't exist" -Pat Dingle from 639
• "I was wondering if pepper spray would be considered "ungracious professionalism"" -Matt from 69
• "I woke up early one morning and found an elephant in my pajamas, how he got in them I will never know" -Kristen from 180
• "jessica simpson.. bad music.. hot body..lol" -Kyle Gilbert from 45
• "TODD JUST FIGURED SOMETHING OUT :D" -Todd Derbyshire from 88
• "Nice of you to put me in your signature, Eddie" -Caitlin from 126
• "Ahh! Eddie's startin the playlist again!" -Joe Ross from 73
• "so, you can just be a one headed monster from the planet Mars? That seems to make more sense. I always knew you were too weird to be from Earth anyway. Yes, and all of the sudden things seem to make more sense about you. :)" -Christina Alzona from 271
• "glad I never say anything stupid =)" -Kristen from 180
• "Britney Spears video on TV........YES!!!!!!" -Clark Gilbert from 45
• "WOOHOO! I AM THE ONLY ONE LORA HATES!" -Bill from 70
• "I'm sleeping... You're welcome to come sleep with me if you a member of the club called 'The Opposite Sex" & If you pass the test..." -Sean from 330
• "I don't remember saying anything funny." -M. Krass from 271
• "i am mike oleary. i am not an impersonater. i am a rambot. NINNY PRIDE!" -Mike O'Leary from 419
• "They told me that a crazy kid with long hair and a ton of buttons stopped by. I assumed it was you, Eddie" -Lora Knepper from 177
• "Why doesn't anybody ever listen to me?" -Carolyn Duncan from 86
• "Robot on board, baby at home" -Andy Baker from 45
• "i was very tempted to say somehting about eddies retreating to his corner..." -Mike O'Leary from 419
• "I think its time to lock this thread....." -Clark Gilbert from 45
• "They're kind of small-ish, and they're plastic. That makes them ripe for becoming victims of our robots tank tread, I think :-)" -M. Krass from 271
• "That has been said 55 times... How much more must we live through?" -Brett from 201
• "If the women dont find you hansome, make sure they find you handy!" -DJ Fluck from 45
• "who's a nutball?" -Dan from 550
• "why do ppl enjoy picking on me? lol" -Kristen from 180
• "you don't have any good ones from me, Eddie" -Joe Ross from 340
• "And you just know Eddie is going to quote that out of context..." -Jessica Boucher from 237
• "Wow, I've got to be careful about what I say around Eddie." -Brian from 365
• "you still don't have any good ones from me" -Joe Ross from 340
• "Our meetings consist of trying to convince people that spiking a soccer ball over the opposing alliance station wall to knock out the opposing drivers, while technically legal, is not a good idea." -ahecht from 992
• "nate: I think you are crazy" -Angela Hall from 180
• "hot chick alert on Fear Factor..lol" -Clark Gilbert from 45
• "I think their the same person and they are both evil" -Joe Ross from 340
• "lalalalalalalalalalalalalala robots! weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" -Ken Leung from 192
• "name that NUT!!" -Clark Gilbert from 45
• "wow me replying to QOTW 2 weeks in a row.... i feel so dirty" -Mike from 25
• "what we learned from Chesapeake: Ashlee is 3 SHU tall" -Steve Shade
• "well Ian: she was wrong once but then it turned out that she just thought she was wrong and she was really right :p" -Cory from 100
• "Out of boredom, the 'better things to concern myself over' has become what time Eddie will log on and post today's question." -Stephen from 122
• "i supposedly was pulled over because my license plate light was out (which it was)...but did it really take the 4 police cars to handle the situation..... so what did we do while the one cop was searching my car.........we talked about robots to the other ones....lol" -Kyle Gilbert from 45
• "MOMMY IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" -Sean from 1197
• "is it pathetic that i spent a better part of my life just looking at people's away messages?" -Mike from 25
• "me yelling "Tomorrow I can buy Pornography!!" through the house wasnt such a good idea ;-)" -DJ Fluck from 45
• "I was wondering why our robot wasn't working, then I realized that it helps if it has a battery." -Moe from 88
• "Well Mr. Ian you are sentenced to be kicked until you take a shower" -DJ Fluck from 45
• "like, not to be mean ash, but were you high that night or something? :p" -Ian from 810
• "the water in rhode island tastes funny..." -Meli W. from 86
• "that annoys me too, when people assume i know everything, and yell at me for something that i have no idea what they're talking about..." -Ian from 810
• "hmm if you had my robot in your car complete with control system, and batteries, would you be talking online right now?" -Mike from 25
• "weee... my old train set is running! round and round and round it goes... weee.... fast! yall are boring" -Jon from 186
• "Mike!!! You killed it again!!!" -Jeff Waegelin from 201
• "i thought philosophers were supposed to be quite sound of mind... do you sit in bathtubs and say things like "Eureka!" alot?" -George from 1083
• "dj, guilt? that would mean he would have a conscience" -Kristina from 691
• "Or would he be locked into an elevator with 20 gassy monkeys and the only music playing is that Macarena song?" -Heidi Foster from 116
• "I honestly think I got stupider (is that a word) from reading this thread. Its like a bad version of photoshop phriday. AHHH!" -Patrick Duffy from 108
• "'confused gorilla'!!!! Why, I am insulted! I am never confused. Startled, not-yet-decided, still-making up-my-mind, still-need-morning-caffeine, perhaps. But not confused. I was thinking more along the lines of an 'optimistic orangutan' or something similar. Or perhaps a late-60's refugee 'assuming the position' for 'illegal display of a party hat in public.' Or perhaps, 'mild-mannered bureaucrat rejoicing over the wanton destruction of PaintShop Pro software vendor facilities and loss of all active copies of the program.' But, what ever..." -Dave Lavery
• "I almost never choose sides, good or bad. I prefer neutral (chaotic of course)." -Heidi Foster from 116
• "My boyfriend did that to me... I text messaged him 'I <3 you' and he returned... 'aww, I less than three you too.' I cracked up so much, and it was an inside joke of ours. But now I understand that it's not too uncommon. (erin shrugs and lowers head in disappointment) now it's 'I < x u (x = integer sqrt4 < x < 4)'" -Erin Rapacki from 125
• "*Looks at Trivia forum. Sees last post is by Eddie* *Thinks to self* 'Oh, it's the question for today and no one's responded yet! Maybe I can get it!' *Open thread. No question.* Evil, evil, evil. :p " -Katie Reynolds from 93
• "Look! It's a bird, it's a Mars Rover! It's, it's... SuperDave! Will he be in time to stop the Evil-Eddie from polluting the world with Dunkin Donuts? Find out next week in the continuing adventures of SuperDave..." -Heidi Foster from 116
• "*looks out the window* watch out Eddie its the Lavery Signal, defender of truth juctice and the Krispy Kreme way!" -Mike from 25
• "My recent donut adventure - kidnaping KK's, and having them travel over 400 miles to New Hampshire with me in trade off for slurpees!... and, well, there has been some other adventures before too! ;)" -Ashley Weed
• "This thread has 'Dave Lavery' written all over it." -Amanda Morrison from 1020
• "Wow, I was so confused by that statement until I looked at the lineup and the team name was actually "Your team name". I guess I'm truly living up to the ValleyGirl name. And Patrick...you mean it will be funny WHEN I beat Cory. Oh man, my cockiness is going to get me in trouble with you guys." -Kristina from 691
• "Eddie, do you have a little too much time on your hands?" -Mike Murphy from 88
• "whoa... there are people here?" -Jeff Waegelin from 201
• "I find it hilarious that 1 can of Miller Light has more benifits for you then 1 can of Coke. so instead of giving your kids a coke, give them a miller light...lol" -DJ Fluck from 45
• "hola! and i'm glad to be an NU student. at my DEKA interview me, dean kamen walked past me in the lobby. he recognized me. turned and said : why does your face look so familiar?! lol the interviewing engineer was like: woah he knows you? normally that doesn't happen... lol." Erin Rapacki from 125
• "Who else besides me reads these trivia threads not for the question Eddie asks, but moreso for the clever reply Big Mike comes up with?" -Andy Baker from 45
• "There is a lil' Lavery~?!?!?!?!?! 0_o May God have mercy on all of us.... -_-!!!" -Ken Leung
• "This just in: The latest NASA research vessel has just crashed into Palo Alto, California. Reports of damage and injuries are still coming in, but it is believed that Ken Leung, long time participant in the FIRST Robotics Competition, was the only fatality." -Jim Gold from 258
• "NOOOO!!! Not KEN!! !Eeeek.. sucks for the research vessel too" -Dan Richardson from 710
• "You know, when I worked at APL, I always joked that the TIMED folks were going to get fed up with us (the Satellite Tracking Facility) and deorbit it directly into our building." -Matt Leese from 73
• "Thank you Dave... I don't know if your post made me smarter or dumber. :D" -Erin Rapacki from 125
• "Dave, for some reason, i dont see you sporting "Quzi-Futuristic Clothing", being bald, holding your pinky to your lower lip, or plotting to take over the world..... but in the off chance you are..... who is austin powers..... *realizes he gave someone a photoshop idea*" -Big Mike from 25
• "Let me just tell you, having two Lavery's is just mind boggling. This will bend the fabric of time and all that stuff." -Joseph M. from 384
• "Is anyone as confused as I am? <goes to get some advil>" -Michael Lee from 125
• "haha, an outhouse can fly" -Leon Machado
• "But if FIRST followed a 'truth in advertising' philosophy for the registration kits, they would contain six cannisters labeled: 'Stress', 'Anxiety', 'Confusion', 'Insomnia', 'Dietary Inadequacy', 'Unbalanced Priorities' And a really big seventh one labeled 'Fun' :)" -Dave Lavery
• "Where's team 1337?" -Duke from 862
• "Immediate, smart-alecky, knee-jerk, wise-a** response: 'hey, you think it is so easy operating a stupid rover in the middle of a planet-wide sand storm from 300 bazillion miles away with a communications pipe just slightly better than two cups and some string, then let's just see YOU do it!' :D " -Dave Lavery
• "i mean who would leave their computer on and then go die... i mean Think of the Electric Bill WONT SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE ELECTRIC BILL!!!!!!" -Mike from 25
• "BICYCLE! BICYCLE! i want to ride my BICYCLE!" -DJ Fluck from 45
• "yeah. i just watch it for the sarcasm and the chicks ;)" -Brandon Martus from 47
• "My suggestion; Don't rob the bank in the first place and if you absolutely must, check with an English professor beforehand." -Erin M. from 365
• "Yo quiero FIRST!" -Lisa Perez from 1
• "I am JVN" -Jeff Waegelin from 201
• "Shouldn't you be picking on Baker or something?" -JVN from 229
• "just wanted to see if I could make Wetzel's brain explode again" -Dave Lavery
• "It could mean 'major pain' or 'bringing about major pain'....as in... 'Amanda Morrison V-Neuned David Kelly at Nationals' 'Wow, fixing that gearbox was a V-Neun!' or... 'Man, that JVN...he's such a V-Neun ;)'" -Jessica Boucher
• "Now the big question, is: Does Dave think This is Pimp?" -Mike from 25
• "hey john, all we need now is a white teeshirt and bleached hair and we all can be just like you!" -Greg Perkins from 134
• "Any and all offers should go to my agent. She is the mother of my three daughters." -Andy Baker from 45
• "Ohh well.. Too bad its george and I tend not to believe anything he posts lol" -Dan from 710
• "WHAT!?! If its on the internet it must be true!" -Matt K. from 131
• "You can flatter me all you want, you're still getting homework." -Dean Kamen
• "Im not JUST an small hyperactive crazy person as SOME teams would have you believe *cough* 116 *cough*" -Ashlee Snodgrass
• "well, considering that the whole world didn't know it for 6 months, getting it wrong isn't so bad ;)" -Joe Ross from 1405
• "Eddie, I'm going to assume you meant the power of making your robot look like cheese by drilling a great many holes in it to reduce weight, but, knowing you, it may have fun been something random that came to your mind." -Angela Hall from 180
• "haha, leave it to joe ross to be bored and to make me do stupid stuff at work :P" -Jessica Boucher
• "and while doing forehead .. i thought .. what about the nose ..." -Shyra from 1353
• "Wow, seems really pointless and stupid... I WANNA TRY! :D" -Joseph M. from 384
• "my elbow is pointy :p" -Meli W. from 86
• "'The FIRST Compdtition or ghis year hAs beren cancslled' <--Greatest Joe Ross line ever, typed with my elbows. :)" -Dave Lavery
• "Wow! Am I glad this wasn't a life or death situation!" -Jay Hartman from 237
• "Stupidest thread I've ever seen.... And what does that say about all of us who responded? Joe, I'm gonna get you for this. ;)" -Greg Ross from 330
• "I suggest that FIRST should include a "big red button" in the KOP next year to make everyone happy. :p" -Jay Hartman from 237
• "Gerardo?!!?! Auugghh! Dave says "that's NOT pimp!!" -Dave Lavery
• "So... Lavery is my dad? Uh oh... On second thought... Hey dad... Can I borrow the Mustang next weekend? ;)" -Bill Gold from 254
• "Let's just be glad he doesn't know about the Jeopardy Eddie runs on here! :p" Jay Hartman from 237

Ahh... that felt good.

Let it be noted that I've collected these quotes since the 2000 season (anybody remember that long signiture of mine in the early VB2 era?).

[Katie Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Astronouth7303

No, CafePress.com lets you do that.

And (unfortunately for you) ChiefDelphi is the name of the forum, too. I think it'll say "ChiefDelphi.com" or "ChiefDelphi Forums", to be precise. Bradon, do you care exactly what it says?

Chief Delphi is gracious enough to open their forums to thousands of FIRSTers and asks for nothing in return. Don't abuse the privilege.

You could put something on a shirt that's an inside joke in the forums, or that you think is funny, but say one of the head-honchos at Delphi sees it, sees the name "Delphi" on it and disapproves. What then? Or what if another FIRSTer sees it and gets offended. Who will they blame? Chief Delphi, of course, because that's the name on the shirt.

Funny, right? But what image does that project of Chief Delphi? Or team 177 for that matter?

How would you feel if someone from team #XXXX went around selling shirts that said something like ... "Your robot sucks." or "Screw Gracious Professionalism and the Chairman's Award - Winning is the only thing that matters!" on the front, and "Team 1227, Techno-Gremlins" on the back. After all, the name isn't copyrighted and cafepress.com would let you print them up.

While whoever made them might think it was funny, if I saw that shirt, I would think "Wow ... Techno-Gremlins ... that's really not cool." And every time I saw you or someone from your team, that's exactly what I'd think -- regardless if you were the one who actually made the shirts or not.

You know, on second thought, go ahead and sell your "I am JVN" thongs and your Chief Delphi shirts. But don't be surprised if you make some enemies and lose a lot of people's respect in the process.

Especially with an attitude like that.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Katie Reynolds

How would you feel if someone from team #XXXX went around selling shirts that said something like ... "Your robot sucks."

I really hate to go off on a tangent after such a well-crafted post, but wasn't there a team in 2003 who had a sign that read "OUR ROBOT SUCKS!" or something to that effect? I could've sworn I've seen that picture.

But to take it back to the topic at hand--the way this idea is pointed, it isn't going to happen. The general idea of it all is just....wrong. Too many "Well, what about (entity that legitimately should be concerned about such a venture)?" factors that just can't be handled unless the team itself handles it (whether through CafePress or within their own team.)

Brandon, however, had the idea a few replies back, however. I would be willing to pony up some money to get an official, authorized, straight-outta-Pontiac Chief Delphi T-shirt. Maybe even a golf shirt, if I ever decided to be a little dressier.

But I had better see the postmark on that package read Pontiac, MI*.

*you know what I mean--if it's from the next town over, or even from a group handling it five states away, I'd be down with it. It's just gotta have that ChiefDelphi Stamp of Approval^TM.

[Katie Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Billfred

I really hate to go off on a tangent after such a well-crafted post, but wasn't there a team in 2003 who had a sign that read "OUR ROBOT SUCKS!" or something to that effect? I could've sworn I've seen that picture.

Yes, but that was their team saying "Our robot sucks." Not saying "Your robot sucks."

The team that did it (the name escapes me now, sorry) used the saying to get people's attention and make them say, "Why would you say your robot sucks ... ? Oh ... haha, you mean it literally sucks."

Now, while you might have a robot that sucks, literally, if someone walked up to you wearing a shirt that said, "Your robot sucks" I'm pretty sure most people would take offense to that.

Just an example. Let's get back on track.

[Matt Attallah]

That was Team 5 that had the slogan "Our 'Bot sucks - Does yours?" B/c of the way we attached our selves to the top of the ramp.

[Joe Matt]

Can we lock this, throw the key away, and just let this be? Guys, we are tearing apart a great member of our community because we are putting words in his mouth. People stood up for 254 & 60 during the whole collaboration thing, yet we want to hang Astronouth from the highest tree because he had an ambitious idea. Sure, was it 100% perfect? No. Was some parts half baked? Sure. But instead of negative criticism and prying him apart, lets practice what we preach, give him positive criticism. We aren't talking about a new forum member who has these shirts ready to sell to WalMart, but a well established guy who has contributed to the community.

[Amanda Morrison]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Can we lock this, throw the key away, and just let this be? Guys, we are tearing apart a great member of our community because we are putting words in his mouth. People stood up for 254 & 60 during the whole collaboration thing, yet we want to hang Astronouth from the highest tree because he had an ambitious idea. Sure, was it 100% perfect? No. Was some parts half baked? Sure. But instead of negative criticism and prying him apart, lets practice what we preach, give him positive criticism. We aren't talking about a new forum member who has these shirts ready to sell to WalMart, but a well established guy who has contributed to the community.

I refuse to lock this thread because it is a great example of what NOT to do: what will NOT make you look favorable to the FIRST community, what NOT to do to befriend the FIRST community, and what line you should know NOT to cross. I'm going to keep this thread open (unfortunately for you).

An ambitious idea is not always a good idea - I am certainly not an engineer (maybe if I had a diploma, I would be) but I can tell you that much. It was indeed not 100% perfect... (unfortunately for you) it was 100% ignorant of your surroundings, what is graciously given to you, what services are generously donated to you. I am a bit confused as to why 254 & 60's thread is used as an example. People stood up for those teams because they believed they were doing a good thing, because they thought what they were doing was right. Nobody is in favor of using materials in ChiefDelphi's name, especially when it is unsolicited. Therefore, few think it is right.

I am sorry if you think that I am not practicing what I should as a moderator, or if you think I am toeing the line of negative criticism. I'm practically jumping over the line and doing hula hoops, if you didn't notice. I cannot stress enough what a BAD idea this is and exactly what kind of enemies/lawsuits/grudges will be held if this happens. I have dealt with some of the worst, most ungracious behavior on these forums, and I'm tired of seeing it. I guess having bad influences like having my peers argue publically over stupid things, or having to read absolutely ridiculous material like this, eventually wears one down from fighting the good fight.

[Ken Leung]

I would like to request a thread split for this thread.

The original idea might not have been the brightest thing, and people gave some constructive criticism about the idea and that was ok. Thats how you learn. The worst that could happen to that kind of discussion is it get killed by the overwhelming amount of post against the idea, but that's nothing new around here. This thread could've ended with a "It is not ok to use the name Chiefdelphi.com without asking for premission first" and that would've been fine.

It was too bad the thread got turned into another "appropriate CD forum behavior" and went completely off topic. It just makes the forum so much more incomprehensible when a thread keep resurfacing and people have to trace the entire discussion just to see where it is heading. You wouldn't want to read a book about baseball and in half way it turn into talking about appropriate sports journalism.

It is very hard to define exactly how you should post in this forum, but keep in mind that we want this place to be beneficial to the community, not waste their time. I read up to the wonderful post #25 of Katie, and got nothing more after that.

SO, if people want to discuss more about right and wrong in the CD forum, we can split a bunch of the posts in here into comments/suggestion and start a new thread. If I were to start a new thread and split some post over (though I can't), I would move everything starting with #29, though #31 and #35 should have a copy in this thread as well.

I hope nothing more get posted except something that's related to the original topic. Not deleting this thread would show people what not to do, but letting it go on uncontrollably would make things too choatic for the good of the CD forum