Favorite quotes on CD gear!

[Katie Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Astronouth7303

No, CafePress.com lets you do that.

And (unfortunately for you) ChiefDelphi is the name of the forum, too. I think it'll say "ChiefDelphi.com" or "ChiefDelphi Forums", to be precise. Bradon, do you care exactly what it says?

Chief Delphi is gracious enough to open their forums to thousands of FIRSTers and asks for nothing in return. Don't abuse the privilege.

You could put something on a shirt that's an inside joke in the forums, or that you think is funny, but say one of the head-honchos at Delphi sees it, sees the name "Delphi" on it and disapproves. What then? Or what if another FIRSTer sees it and gets offended. Who will they blame? Chief Delphi, of course, because that's the name on the shirt.

Funny, right? But what image does that project of Chief Delphi? Or team 177 for that matter?

How would you feel if someone from team #XXXX went around selling shirts that said something like ... "Your robot sucks." or "Screw Gracious Professionalism and the Chairman's Award - Winning is the only thing that matters!" on the front, and "Team 1227, Techno-Gremlins" on the back. After all, the name isn't copyrighted and cafepress.com would let you print them up.

While whoever made them might think it was funny, if I saw that shirt, I would think "Wow ... Techno-Gremlins ... that's really not cool." And every time I saw you or someone from your team, that's exactly what I'd think -- regardless if you were the one who actually made the shirts or not.

You know, on second thought, go ahead and sell your "I am JVN" thongs and your Chief Delphi shirts. But don't be surprised if you make some enemies and lose a lot of people's respect in the process.

Especially with an attitude like that.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Katie Reynolds

How would you feel if someone from team #XXXX went around selling shirts that said something like ... "Your robot sucks."

I really hate to go off on a tangent after such a well-crafted post, but wasn't there a team in 2003 who had a sign that read "OUR ROBOT SUCKS!" or something to that effect? I could've sworn I've seen that picture.

But to take it back to the topic at hand--the way this idea is pointed, it isn't going to happen. The general idea of it all is just....wrong. Too many "Well, what about (entity that legitimately should be concerned about such a venture)?" factors that just can't be handled unless the team itself handles it (whether through CafePress or within their own team.)

Brandon, however, had the idea a few replies back, however. I would be willing to pony up some money to get an official, authorized, straight-outta-Pontiac Chief Delphi T-shirt. Maybe even a golf shirt, if I ever decided to be a little dressier.

But I had better see the postmark on that package read Pontiac, MI*.

*you know what I mean--if it's from the next town over, or even from a group handling it five states away, I'd be down with it. It's just gotta have that ChiefDelphi Stamp of Approval^TM.

[Katie Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Billfred

I really hate to go off on a tangent after such a well-crafted post, but wasn't there a team in 2003 who had a sign that read "OUR ROBOT SUCKS!" or something to that effect? I could've sworn I've seen that picture.

Yes, but that was their team saying "Our robot sucks." Not saying "Your robot sucks."

The team that did it (the name escapes me now, sorry) used the saying to get people's attention and make them say, "Why would you say your robot sucks ... ? Oh ... haha, you mean it literally sucks."

Now, while you might have a robot that sucks, literally, if someone walked up to you wearing a shirt that said, "Your robot sucks" I'm pretty sure most people would take offense to that.

Just an example. Let's get back on track.

[Matt Attallah]

That was Team 5 that had the slogan "Our 'Bot sucks - Does yours?" B/c of the way we attached our selves to the top of the ramp.

[Joe Matt]

Can we lock this, throw the key away, and just let this be? Guys, we are tearing apart a great member of our community because we are putting words in his mouth. People stood up for 254 & 60 during the whole collaboration thing, yet we want to hang Astronouth from the highest tree because he had an ambitious idea. Sure, was it 100% perfect? No. Was some parts half baked? Sure. But instead of negative criticism and prying him apart, lets practice what we preach, give him positive criticism. We aren't talking about a new forum member who has these shirts ready to sell to WalMart, but a well established guy who has contributed to the community.

[Amanda Morrison]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Can we lock this, throw the key away, and just let this be? Guys, we are tearing apart a great member of our community because we are putting words in his mouth. People stood up for 254 & 60 during the whole collaboration thing, yet we want to hang Astronouth from the highest tree because he had an ambitious idea. Sure, was it 100% perfect? No. Was some parts half baked? Sure. But instead of negative criticism and prying him apart, lets practice what we preach, give him positive criticism. We aren't talking about a new forum member who has these shirts ready to sell to WalMart, but a well established guy who has contributed to the community.

I refuse to lock this thread because it is a great example of what NOT to do: what will NOT make you look favorable to the FIRST community, what NOT to do to befriend the FIRST community, and what line you should know NOT to cross. I'm going to keep this thread open (unfortunately for you).

An ambitious idea is not always a good idea - I am certainly not an engineer (maybe if I had a diploma, I would be) but I can tell you that much. It was indeed not 100% perfect... (unfortunately for you) it was 100% ignorant of your surroundings, what is graciously given to you, what services are generously donated to you. I am a bit confused as to why 254 & 60's thread is used as an example. People stood up for those teams because they believed they were doing a good thing, because they thought what they were doing was right. Nobody is in favor of using materials in ChiefDelphi's name, especially when it is unsolicited. Therefore, few think it is right.

I am sorry if you think that I am not practicing what I should as a moderator, or if you think I am toeing the line of negative criticism. I'm practically jumping over the line and doing hula hoops, if you didn't notice. I cannot stress enough what a BAD idea this is and exactly what kind of enemies/lawsuits/grudges will be held if this happens. I have dealt with some of the worst, most ungracious behavior on these forums, and I'm tired of seeing it. I guess having bad influences like having my peers argue publically over stupid things, or having to read absolutely ridiculous material like this, eventually wears one down from fighting the good fight.

[Ken Leung]

I would like to request a thread split for this thread.

The original idea might not have been the brightest thing, and people gave some constructive criticism about the idea and that was ok. Thats how you learn. The worst that could happen to that kind of discussion is it get killed by the overwhelming amount of post against the idea, but that's nothing new around here. This thread could've ended with a "It is not ok to use the name Chiefdelphi.com without asking for premission first" and that would've been fine.

It was too bad the thread got turned into another "appropriate CD forum behavior" and went completely off topic. It just makes the forum so much more incomprehensible when a thread keep resurfacing and people have to trace the entire discussion just to see where it is heading. You wouldn't want to read a book about baseball and in half way it turn into talking about appropriate sports journalism.

It is very hard to define exactly how you should post in this forum, but keep in mind that we want this place to be beneficial to the community, not waste their time. I read up to the wonderful post #25 of Katie, and got nothing more after that.

SO, if people want to discuss more about right and wrong in the CD forum, we can split a bunch of the posts in here into comments/suggestion and start a new thread. If I were to start a new thread and split some post over (though I can't), I would move everything starting with #29, though #31 and #35 should have a copy in this thread as well.

I hope nothing more get posted except something that's related to the original topic. Not deleting this thread would show people what not to do, but letting it go on uncontrollably would make things too choatic for the good of the CD forum

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Katie Reynolds

You know, on second thought, go ahead and sell your "I am JVN" thongs and your Chief Delphi shirts. But don't be surprised if you make some enemies and lose a lot of people's respect in the process.

Especially with an attitude like that.

Ahhh... I have heard the voice of reason, and it is coming from Wisconsin.

Thank you Katie.
What she said... 100%.


This entire thing has grown silly.
If anyone intends to sell anything with my name/likeness on it, they should at least ask my permission. It's called COURTESY.
If I were to print anything with the chiefdelphi name, especially to SELL, I would again... ask permission. Not demand it.

Originally Posted by EddieMcD

Yeeeeeeeeessssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You asked for it!
...
Ahh... that felt good.

Yeah... great. I'm glad it felt good to quote people out of context.
You portrayed a few of my personal friends in a pretty bad light.

I do not appreciate it.
I'm sure, neither do they.

I'm going to be pretty careful not to ever say anything even remotely open in front of you, and I urge others to do the same. I don't want you scribbling down my words in your notebook to be repeated later.

Things said in a small group, or in confidence... are NOT to be repeated in a public forum. To do so (again) shows a complete lack of COURTESY.




Ohh, and Joe... you may be quick to defend young Jamie, but he was the one who responded with attitude.
As he has done in the past.

[sarcasm]Obviously he's entitled to the Chiefdelphi name, because... it's there. [/sarcasm]

How can you possibly compare this to the 254/60 debate? That's just crazy, and going way overboard.


Seriously. This has just been an awesome few weeks, ehh?
The golden age.

*shakes head*
John

[miketwalker]

I agree with Amanda in not locking this thread, because this is absolutly ridiculous. I really don't like to be rude or disrespectful... but this thread completly sickens me.

I can understand that you enjoy CD so much or whatever that you want to wear it's gear... but you should talk to a leader of that team to see if they agree before you go trying to promote the idea.

Now... even if morals don't seem to avoid you in doing this... then perhaps the fact that you are USING the CD system to promote this idea should make you think twice. That makes it so much worse... you are using a system hosted by CD to promote an idea that uses their name without their permission. I understand that you might've made a mistake... but this is not the first thread in which Astronouth has jumped the gun and disrespected engineers or teams. I understand a mistake, but learn... and move on and don't do it again. I personally believe that if this continues in this way, that you should not have permission to use the forums anymore if you will demoralize other members of this community and be disrespectful to teams.

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

Ok, hold on a sec. This honestly is getting a bit out of hand.

I don't know about anything Jamie does in other threads. So I wont' comment on it. But please realize that he hasn't replied to your last few posts. While I agree that using a trademark for personal gain is disrespectful, maybe we could continue to discuss this issue without targeting Jamie. I see many other threads with people disrespecting one another, and this one isn't the appropriate place I don't believe, in all respect, since not that many members of the community who may really need to see this are seeing it. Do you understand what I mean?

M Walker, while I think you make a strong point that disrespect isn't good and while Jamie may have done it before, the idea of removing him from the forum is a bit harsh. Please take the more personal attacks on him out of the actual thread guys, and attack the general "disrespectful public" if you wish.

I apologize, I've had enough of watching this kid be torn apart, and since I've been part of it a bit, I apologize to you Jamie.

- Eugenia

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Eugenia Gabrielov

M Walker, while I think you make a strong point that disrespect isn't good and while Jamie may have done it before, the idea of removing him from the forum is a bit harsh. Please take the more personal attacks on him out of the actual thread guys, and attack the general "disrespectful public" if you wish.

This is not a personal attack that miketwalker is making, rather a reference to a pattern of disrespectful behaviour, that is pretty clear to anyone who regularly reads these forums. Amanda earlier said she was going to leave this thread open as an example of inappropriate behaviour. miketwalker was just pointing out a possible consequence for this type of behaviour.

I would hardly say that anyone has been torn apart. The responses in this thread have just accurately pointed out poor posting behaviour.

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

My apologies to miketwalker for calling it torn apart. It was a poor choice of words.

Please do note however, that Jamie's last post was #14. This is post #35 or so. I would say if this occurred for me, then I would have gotten the point by now. I'm sure many people here have had a thread where they posted something that ended up being criticized. There is nothing wrong with your criticism, but at this point there is no longer much reason to do it except for to pm him with courtesy about the issue. There is no grounds to kick him off Chief Delphi, as mentioned above.

I give up on this thread because even if I defend Jamie because as a friend someone should, I understand there is no use to do that at this point.

Thank you and good luck,
Eugenia

[EddieMcD]

Originally Posted by JVN

Yeah... great. I'm glad it felt good to quote people out of context.
You portrayed a few of my personal friends in a pretty bad light.

I do not appreciate it.
I'm sure, neither do they.

I'm going to be pretty careful not to ever say anything even remotely open in front of you, and I urge others to do the same. I don't want you scribbling down my words in your notebook to be repeated later.

Things said in a small group, or in confidence... are NOT to be repeated in a public forum. To do so (again) shows a complete lack of COURTESY.

Ok, for the record (and a defense of myself), everything on here was either A: said on these boards, B: said in the tigerbolt chat (a lot of those are from practically ancient times), or C: quoted with permission. I don't have a notebook which I write things down in, and I don't repeat things told in confidence. The whole quote list (which was originally my signiture for the VB2 boards) was all in good fun, and people knew that. I'm sorry some people can't see that nowadays.

Seing as I am getting off topic, my opinion on this whole matter with Astronouth and his idea is to delete this thread entirely. Not just lock it, but delete it. I won't defend his second post, but his first post was an honest mistake. I say we just make it disappear and forget about it. Yes, it will exist in the back of some people's minds, but IMO, it'll be better for everybody this way. Again, just my opinion.

Keep flying,
-Eddie