To chit chat or not to chit chat

[Madison]

In the past, I think I'd have defended the chit-chat forum as a good place for people to take a break from the good work they're doing and have some fun. Today, I wouldn't be upset for the forum to disappear altogether, as I don't feel like many of the people participating in that forum are doing hard work of any sort. They're goofing off exclusively and making it much harder for people to get answers to questions and to learn from one another in meaningful, relevant ways.

I've gone from checking the content on this site several times daily to checking it twice a week. I believe that I rarely miss anything worthwhile as a result. The growth of this site is exciting and promising, but I'd rather see that there are 14 times as many insightful engineers contributing than 14 times as many high school sophomores.

[seanwitte]

Just because a forum exists doesn't mean that you have to read it. You wouldn't even know the Chit-Chat forum was there unless you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page. Unless its causing strain on the moderators or presents a liability issue then whats the problem? The Washington Post is a serious newspaper but it still has a comics page. From what I understand the CC forum is in a sandbox anyways because its posts are not aggregated in the portal. Unless you seek it out I think you're pretty well protected from reading any off-topic stuff by accident. If the host doesn't mind someone else doing something silly at the party, and you don't have to see it, then why complain?

[MissInformation]

I lost sleep thinking about this thread last night, and several times I almost got up to post again, decided not to because I knew I would then spend the rest of the night thinking about what I posted. But I did want to add a few more comments.

I'm glad some of you clarified your good opinions of Chief Delphi, because this site is an all around amazing site and Brandon and his crew deserve the respect of everyone who uses it. I cringe every time I read another person posting "CD's gone downhill" type posts because it can only be taken as an insult to the people who put so much time and effort into running this site. The site has changed just as the people who post here change... it's not good, it's not bad, it just is.

I post mainly on Chit Chat (and this does not mean I do not do hard work) if I feel my opinion matters to a thread outside of Chit Chat, I post, if I feel it doesn't matter, I stay quiet. If Chief Delphi decided the purpose of the forum was for technical discussion only, then I would support that 100% because it is their forum. I would be sad of course, because I've grown to love the community here and I think that there is a part of this community that is partially formed by information revealed, and banter done in Chit Chat threads. No, I wouldn't stand up in the middle of a meeting and ask everyone if they prefer Bush or Kerry. But in the ten minutes before a meeting, during lunch times on 8 hour build days, and during the waiting around for a ride time after a meeting, I love finding out about the students lives. I want to know what their favorite band is or if they've read a good book... I want to hear what crazy thing happened to them at school that day. That's chit chat, and I personally think it builds a better team.

I would hate to see the Chit Chat forum hosted on another site with a more relaxed code of conduct. I've belonged to many message boards, most of them with this more relaxed code of conduct, and the fighting that goes on is enough to make you pull your hair out. Moderators are supposed to moderate, and this means warning people about behavior, deleting inappropriate threads... reminding people that the thread they just started has been started five times before... (and I must add that Brandon and his professional crew of moderators do a darn good job of this). These flame wars don't always happen in the Chit Chat section either, wasn't there some big fights over last year's game rules and on collaboration? Snarls and tangles are always going to happen, especially with so many people from so many different backgrounds and especially when all conversations are in writing and open for interpretation. It happens on all forums, moderated or not.

Well, I hope you don't mind the opinion of a habitual chit-chatter because there it is!

Heidi

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

I'd rather see that there are 14 times as many insightful engineers contributing than 14 times as many high school sophomores.

I'm going to have to partially disagree with this - FIRST brings students and engineers together to interact with each other and I think we're forgetting that. From the FIRST website - "FIRST designs accessible, innovative programs to build self-confidence, knowledge and life skills while motivating young people to pursue opportunities in science, technology and engineering." So, since FIRST was created to motivate young people why is it a bad thing that hundreds of students converse and meet with each other through FIRST?

Just a thought.

[Adam Y.]

a) Has the Chit-Chat forum always been a liability then?
b) I would think that a higher up from Delphi would be able to distinguish the difference between a humorous Chit-Chat post and a serious, content packed Technical Forum post.

Yeah I think it always was a liability. I've noticed that a lot of the flack I occasionaly saw in the chit-chat forum is starting to come up in a consistent basis. It's mainly the political discussions that are the problem and Im not sure why but they have become worst since I began on these forums. I seriously doubt there is any political topic that didn't degrade into a horrible arguement. (Not that they were any sane discussions to start with.) One thread starts; it gets closed, and then the whole entire process starts over again.

[Ken Leung]

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

So, since FIRST was created to motivate young people why is it a bad thing that hundreds of students converse and meet with each other through FIRST?

Just a thought.

And there you have it. The final key to the combination lock I haven't been able to understand. Silly me for not seeing it earlier.

Good luck. :-)

[Jay H 237]

Now I understand what meaubry is talking about with Chit-Chat being the biggest liability of all the sections, but if Chit-Chat was removed wouldn't the "noise" wind up in other areas? It seems to me that it is easier to keep a closer eye on one section of the forums. This gives the "noise" a place to go than to clutter other sections and be "muffled" if needed.

[Brandon Martus]

Originally Posted by Jay H 237

Now I understand what meaubry is talking about with Chit-Chat being the biggest liability of all the sections, but if Chit-Chat was removed wouldn't the "noise" wind up in other areas? It seems to me that it is easier to keep a closer eye on one section of the forums. This gives the "noise" a place to go than to clutter other sections and be "muffled" if needed.

Thats what I would say, if I were posting my opinion.

[Ken Leung]

Originally Posted by Jay H 237

Now I understand what meaubry is talking about with Chit-Chat being the biggest liability of all the sections, but if Chit-Chat was removed wouldn't the "noise" wind up in other areas? It seems to me that it is easier to keep a closer eye on one section of the forums. This gives the "noise" a place to go than to clutter other sections and be "muffled" if needed.

Interesting point. Thank you for bringing that up.

My question is, does having a Chit Chat section really gather up the noises in the area area?

I think it does, to a certain extend. People who want to chat to other people about some random stuff do post in the chit chat forum. But those are things completely unrelated to FIRST. I do not think those topic will reach over to the main forum is there is no place for it. Things like video games, evil laughter, etc.

I say it does to a certain extend because I've observed that threads to get off topic in the main forum with or without the Chit Chat section, though most are still some what related to FIRST, or some inside jokes few people share among themselves. Those will remain there with or without the chit chat section.

I want to touch on the point of the possibility that having the chit chat section may be affecting the main forum in a negative way. Lots of new members come into the chit chat forum, sense the loose attitude of posting without a certain reservation, and repeat the same attitude in the regular forums. The regular veteran posters will post because they have something to contribute, others I've seen will post because they can. That may or may not come from the chit chat section.

I've also noticed some threads in chit chat that are very political. Those kind of threads have caused many flaming wars, and may be what Meabury is talking about. Those discussions sometimes grow beyond control and have to be closed by moderators. In a way, that's not the best things to expose to the FIRST community.

I am not sure I fully understand the full impact of the chit chat section on the entire forum. It can go one way or the other. I suspect some of both is happening (chit chat section help containing the off topics, and chit chat section help increasing the off topics). Any insightful inputs will be greatly appreciated.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Ken Leung

Interesting point. Thank you for bringing that up.

My question is, does having a Chit Chat section really gather up the noises in the area area?

I think it does, to a certain extend. People who want to chat to other people about some random stuff do post in the chit chat forum. But those are things completely unrelated to FIRST. I do not think those topic will reach over to the main forum is there is no place for it. Things like video games, evil laughter, etc.

I say it does to a certain extend because I've observed that threads to get off topic in the main forum with or without the Chit Chat section, though most are still some what related to FIRST, or some inside jokes few people share among themselves. Those will remain there with or without the chit chat section.

I want to touch on the point of the possibility that having the chit chat section may be affecting the main forum in a negative way. Lots of new members come into the chit chat forum, sense the loose attitude of posting without a certain reservation, and repeat the same attitude in the regular forums. The regular veteran posters will post because they have something to contribute, others I've seen will post because they can. That may or may not come from the chit chat section.

I've also noticed some threads in chit chat that are very political. Those kind of threads have caused many flaming wars, and may be what Meabury is talking about. Those discussions sometimes grow beyond control and have to be closed by moderators. In a way, that's not the best things to expose to the FIRST community.

I am not sure I fully understand the full impact of the chit chat section on the entire forum. It can go one way or the other. I suspect some of both is happening (chit chat section help containing the off topics, and chit chat section help increasing the off topics). Any insightful inputs will be greatly appreciated.

Speaking of politically induced headaches whatever happened to SilenceNo More?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Speaking of politically induced headaches whatever happened to SilenceNo More?

Who cares? he isn't here

A group of people figured out what team he was from and let him know that they knew.

That scared him off real quick

[Marc P.]

The CD poster community is a very small part of the entire FIRST community, but surprisingly a large amount of the whole community rely on it for information to help their own team. If we can't figure out what's causing all these frustrations within the forum, this place will no longer be a useful place to the community as a whole.

Ken, I think this is the basis of the main question of this thread. Every year, Chiefdelphi grows. As such, a larger and larger percentage of people involved in FIRST become involved with Chiefdelphi.com in one way or another. If not by posting directly, by getting help from a team who found an answer to a problem right here. Since I joined in 2002, I have noticed dramatic increases in the number of threads and users from year to year. From the Internet Wayback Machine:

Early 2002:
Registered Members: 492
Total Threads: 855 | Total Posts: 8,130 | Total Views: 168,749
0-posters: 185 | Active Members: 261 | Inactive Members: 231

Present:
Threads: 23,818, Posts: 261,076, Members: 7,159

We have roughly 32 times more posts in 27 times more threads and 14 times more members, all within a mere 2 and a half years. That's beyond incredible growth. I think in some ways the first few hundred members miss the days when it was only a few hundred members. Smaller communities tend to bond better, get to know each other better, etc. It was easier to know everyone, recognize a name, and sort the wheat from the chaff in terms of posts. Now the community has exploded in numbers, and it would seem, like FIRST itself, is experiencing some growing pains. Older members wish for the old days, while newer members wish to express newer viewpoints on how things are/should be. Looks like the classic clash of the old and the new- like parents and kids on what good music is.

I'll say I'm in favor of chit-chat, because it does give the community (no matter how big it gets) a place to keep everything that doesn't belong in the technical/informational portion of the site. Of course, there are plenty of off-topic and needless threads and posts even within the generally more useful (in a technical sense) sections, but chit-chat gives it all a place to come together, and obtain information about other community members and things which wouldn't otherwise fit in any other category, like a catch-all for random posts.

[phrontist]

Originally Posted by Ken Leung

A bigger problem that needs to be addressed sometimes is an observation I keep hearing now a days: "Chief Delphi Forum isn't a useful tool anymore." I hear that saying through out the FIRST realm, from old posters who used to post a lot, to high school teachers who told me "I don't have time to dig through all the noise anymore".

The CD poster community is a very small part of the entire FIRST community, but surprisingly a large amount of the whole community rely on it for information to help their own team. If we can't figure out what's causing all these frustrations within the forum, this place will no longer be a useful place to the community as a whole.


Is chit chat the cause of the frustration we are seeing lately? Is it from people's lack of respects for rules? Are the few of us really too up tight and need to stop whinning and go away? That's something I really want to find out before the Season approach.

Sincerely,
Ken Leung

I think this is what FIRSTwiki should do! The fourm format doesn't work well at all as an information storage and retreival system, but it works great for discussion. So as usual, my solution to the problem is to encourage everyone to enhance and depend on FIRSTwiki.

[Lisa Rodriguez]

My idea:
Chit-chat is a way to talk about random stuff and relieve yourself of stress, and to have some fun. It's a way to talk about things not relating to robotics with people involved in robotics.
If you dislike the chit-chat forum, is that not what brandon worked hard to customize your portal for? So you may chose to ignore those crazy people in the chit-chat forum!!!

anyway, just my point of view, i like to talk about random stuff

[Koko Ed]

Bigtime pro Chit Chat.
Without it there'd be no Fantasy FIRST!