To chit chat or not to chit chat

[Ken Leung]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

I went back and read the forum rules. They are fair, balanced and also broad enough to allow this community to sustain itself and to sustain chit chat.
There is a very fine line between passion and emotion, sometime it gets crossed. Let's not confuse the two.

We all need to play by the rules.

We are community... I hope we stay that way.

Nicely Put. The bigger picture is that we are all in this program together, as a community. Though we may not agree with each other on everything, we still share the same values... Friendship, Professionalism, and Compassion... Values that guide us to share this world with fellow human beings. And we share the same goals, Education and Inspiration. Sometimes we lost sight of that when we pursuit something with too much passion. That's what I did when I thought about this issue. I thought too much about what I want and not enough about the rest.

As a student of engineering and philosophy, I must learn to see reality as it is, and the reality is, as demonstrated by the poll and replies in this thread, people enjoy the chit chat section in this forum. Most of the posters in this thread like things the way they are. If that is the wishes of the majority, then I can live with that. After all, this website was created by Chief Delphi for the good of the community.

I will, however, continue to believe the values of having a seriously, meaningful conduit for FIRST participants to communicate with each other. A place that focuses in Friendship, Communication, Cooperation, and Professionalism. Whether or not the current Chief Delphi Forum have those focuses is up to you to decide.

I for one will continue searching for questions, and hopefully answers that follow them. But that's another thread another time in another place... Good luck and Goodbye.


I can't stress enough how grateful I am of the existence of this forum. Going back to what Meaubry and John was talking about, if the chit chat section really does become a liability and cause anything to happen to the entire website or team 47, I would hate to see that happen and will accept any changes necessary to prevent that. I will support any decision team 47 makes 100%.

[Ryan M.]

Originally Posted by CourtneyB

I dont really think it would make a difference it chief delphi got rid of thje chit chat forum. But it is kinda cool having it because its an off subject topic forum thing if you have nothing to talk about.
-Court-

Maybe when we don't have anything to talk about, we don't post. Sorry, just had to note that.

But, I am for chit-chat. At the very least, it keeps the random things from appearing in the more "important" parts of the forum. If you don't want to see anything about chit-chat, Brandon has provided a way to filter out all that "junk" from your portal. And those fortunate guests are already protected.

[Adam Y.]

I'd be willing to lose posters whose only interest is chit chat, to gain those who's sole interest is FIRST. I think those who participate in both chit-chat and the other forums, would still remain if chit-chat was toned down or eliminated. I could be wrong about this, but I think most of the hybrid posters are here mainly for the FIRST discussion.

The one thing that I see happening if you were to eliminate chit-chat is that you would get about two or three people visiting the forums during the summer.

By eliminating the Chit-Chat forum, things would become a lot more serious around here, and we would gain many new readers and posters with various new insights and information, which would make CD a much better resource. Sure, we wouldn't be able to have a lot the fun little threads that we've all come to enjoy (and yes, despite me sounding like a grinch right now, I'd miss a lot of it too). But there's no reason that these discussions couldn't occur on another board not hosted by ChiefDelphi.

The only thing that irks me about the chit chat forums is the 6 or 7 political topics that always degrades into a argument. Also, no one ever uses the science forum to post science related articles. They always post it in the chit-chat forum where I rarely read the articles.

Speaking of politically induced headaches whatever happened to SilenceNo More?

Im not sure but if you read the the chit-chat area we have a conspiracy theorist posting.

[Madison]

In the past, I think I'd have defended the chit-chat forum as a good place for people to take a break from the good work they're doing and have some fun. Today, I wouldn't be upset for the forum to disappear altogether, as I don't feel like many of the people participating in that forum are doing hard work of any sort. They're goofing off exclusively and making it much harder for people to get answers to questions and to learn from one another in meaningful, relevant ways.

I've gone from checking the content on this site several times daily to checking it twice a week. I believe that I rarely miss anything worthwhile as a result. The growth of this site is exciting and promising, but I'd rather see that there are 14 times as many insightful engineers contributing than 14 times as many high school sophomores.

[seanwitte]

Just because a forum exists doesn't mean that you have to read it. You wouldn't even know the Chit-Chat forum was there unless you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page. Unless its causing strain on the moderators or presents a liability issue then whats the problem? The Washington Post is a serious newspaper but it still has a comics page. From what I understand the CC forum is in a sandbox anyways because its posts are not aggregated in the portal. Unless you seek it out I think you're pretty well protected from reading any off-topic stuff by accident. If the host doesn't mind someone else doing something silly at the party, and you don't have to see it, then why complain?

[MissInformation]

I lost sleep thinking about this thread last night, and several times I almost got up to post again, decided not to because I knew I would then spend the rest of the night thinking about what I posted. But I did want to add a few more comments.

I'm glad some of you clarified your good opinions of Chief Delphi, because this site is an all around amazing site and Brandon and his crew deserve the respect of everyone who uses it. I cringe every time I read another person posting "CD's gone downhill" type posts because it can only be taken as an insult to the people who put so much time and effort into running this site. The site has changed just as the people who post here change... it's not good, it's not bad, it just is.

I post mainly on Chit Chat (and this does not mean I do not do hard work) if I feel my opinion matters to a thread outside of Chit Chat, I post, if I feel it doesn't matter, I stay quiet. If Chief Delphi decided the purpose of the forum was for technical discussion only, then I would support that 100% because it is their forum. I would be sad of course, because I've grown to love the community here and I think that there is a part of this community that is partially formed by information revealed, and banter done in Chit Chat threads. No, I wouldn't stand up in the middle of a meeting and ask everyone if they prefer Bush or Kerry. But in the ten minutes before a meeting, during lunch times on 8 hour build days, and during the waiting around for a ride time after a meeting, I love finding out about the students lives. I want to know what their favorite band is or if they've read a good book... I want to hear what crazy thing happened to them at school that day. That's chit chat, and I personally think it builds a better team.

I would hate to see the Chit Chat forum hosted on another site with a more relaxed code of conduct. I've belonged to many message boards, most of them with this more relaxed code of conduct, and the fighting that goes on is enough to make you pull your hair out. Moderators are supposed to moderate, and this means warning people about behavior, deleting inappropriate threads... reminding people that the thread they just started has been started five times before... (and I must add that Brandon and his professional crew of moderators do a darn good job of this). These flame wars don't always happen in the Chit Chat section either, wasn't there some big fights over last year's game rules and on collaboration? Snarls and tangles are always going to happen, especially with so many people from so many different backgrounds and especially when all conversations are in writing and open for interpretation. It happens on all forums, moderated or not.

Well, I hope you don't mind the opinion of a habitual chit-chatter because there it is!

Heidi

For those of you that just want "the point" then (yes, read paragraph 4)
I personally have a very broad sense of what qualifies as "chit-chat", which is why I would have to argue for the chit-chat forum to stay. Logically it is a huge liability and I understand this, but are not rumors essentially educated gossip as well as certain threads in the extra discussion ? The key to a successful chit-chat area isn't better mods, because Brandon and the rest of the mods are by far the best moderators I have ever seen. CD is a huge place and I don't know how it's humanly possible to do such a superb job as they do. The key to chit-chat is that it needs to be focused. I agree with the opinion that the chit-chat forum and the main forums aren't nearly the same as when I joined (which is fairly recently); this is because posters aren't sure of what's required of them. I know that sometimes it's easier to simply read the first and last pages of the thread and then reply, but I read every page of a technical discussion if I am planning to reply to it.
With that said, Many times after I read a forum, I realize that I haven't a good enough reason to post as I originally thought I did. Sometimes it is because someone such as Rob B. or Brandon M. or John V. Neun. or Amanda M., etc... and resolved the questions at hand (Sometimes I'll search a thread for certain user names when I'm just looking for information because I know that what they post is 100% top notch). Sometimes it's as simple as the thread taking a turn in the discussion that I don't feel I can help with.
And so I come to the crux of my post.

I've gone from checking the content on this site several times daily to checking it twice a week. I believe that I rarely miss anything worthwhile as a result. The growth of this site is exciting and promising, but I'd rather see that there are 14 times as many insightful engineers contributing than 14 times as many high school sophomores.

I am a high school junior.
Having established this, in a thread dealing with low-tech creative solutions and certain team-related activities, I can share my thoughts and experiences. When it comes to a technical discussion such as gearboxes, I bookmark the thread and check later when John V. N. or Andy (Yes I apologize for the liberal use of first names in advance) has posted. In the meantime, I think I'll check my all-time favorite non-technical thread before I leavethe word association (organization, group, get-together, meeting) , which contains the level of technical discussion that I function at.
What was my point? The Chit-Chat threads give the bulk of FIRST (The enthusiastic high-schoolers) a place to belong on the CD forum. You cannot forget that while we may (I admit it) get in the way sometimes, the majority of us, I hope, read and think about their posts as I try to. If I read the technical forums and then go away thinking, that's, usually, a good thing. If I however know that I have no reason to come to CD because everything is discussed at the astrophysical (rocket-scientist) level, FIRST loses something. It's the same as the Scientific American or Popular Science magazines, they're a nice middle-ground between reading journals (not fun at all but very informative and time intensive) and gossip (usually fun, barely ever yield anything of value). I personally would still come to CD to read the technical threads, but as also pointed out, much readership would be lost. Many of the chit-chat people are also highschoolers and if you drive them away, doesn't that defeat the point of the existance of CD?
A solution : Go to the FIRST website. They have a place where a moderated (correct me if I'm wrong) coaches-only discussion can ensue. This is a great place for highly technical FIRST-related discussion.

The second (and final point to be made in my longest post ever ...will not be to make shorter posts.) point as well as the moral to this is that chit-chat is good because it draws students, which is one of the core priciples of FIRST. To inspire school students. I quote my coach "It's hard to get 'em in the door. Once they're they see how great it is, but you have to get them there first.". If it takes a chit-chat thread to "get 'em [us highschool students] in the door", I'm all for it. I realize that posts will surface that are flat-out wrong. This needs to be dealt with. I realize that threads will be made (I haven't created any. The only two I have to my name are two that occured when I left my account online...oops.) that are useless to such a high deegree that many people will petition for mandatory IQ tests and Background screenings to join CD. I realize this. But for the most part (I hope), students (such as myself) are responsible individuals and that they can be trusted to post responsibly.
Another solution. Feel an idividual is posting "just to post?" Talk to a mod. Talk to them. Tell them how to improve their postings. There will always be that .001% that's incurable, but its amazing what words can do.

In short:
Chit-Chat -> Readership -> Inspiration -> Good

So you see, that I see is not the chit-chat. It is poor posting habits and too many forums (see 1st paragraph) that have a grey-area that would allow chit-chat to seep into them if the chit-chat forum was abolished.

But that's just the point of view of this one junior who's not had to put up with being a moderator, so he doesn't know how hard it is (although he assumes its pretty trying at times) that's got such a bad sinus cold that he thinks he's just going to keel over on the keyboard. I'm sure I made some repititions here, so PM me if I need to change this to be less long-winded and if you have any suggestions to that (or other) ends. It comes from living with a lawyer (though that's not a bad thing at the end of the day).

[Ryan Dognaux]

I've been thinking about a way to express how absurd I think removing the Chit Chat forum is... and the only way I can say it is that if Chit Chat was removed from Chief Delphi, I honestly wouldn't look at the site until build season rolled around again.

[David Hoff]

I originally decided to stay out of this debate but after I had read through most of these post I still can not find enough reasons why there should not be a chit chat forum. Having it does not hurt anyone in anyway. If you don't want to read it, then don't. I also don't see how not having it could increase the number of Chief Delphi readers, it could only diminish the number from my point of view. Another point brought up was the professionalism of the site with chit chat threads, frankly I don't think that really matters. This is a high school student driven organization and most readers are teenagers. Don't get me wrong we need to up hold a certain standard but its not as important as some of you are making it out to be. I think sometimes we forget this and we over analyze every little detail like the quality of the Who Am I pictures. You may not agree with this and that's fine, we all have our different opinions.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by David Hoff

I originally decided to stay out of this debate but after I had read through most of these post I still can not find one reason why there should not be a chit chat forum. Having it does not hurt anyone in anyway.

Mike Aubry (forgive me if I've forgotten how to spell your name correctly) wrote:
Our moderators do an awesome job of monitoring this section, but even so, this is a difficult forum to justify. You see, it only takes one bad post to cause me (lead from Delphi on this team) to have headaches and potentially phone calls from the higher ups at Delphi. I explain that we are continuously monitoring the website - but - if it gets out of control, we won't only lose the Chit Chat forum - we potentially could lose the entire chiefdelphi website.

What more reason do you need? The inanity of chit-chat will potentially hurt both the people who post and the people who use the site as a resource without participating.

I'm not terribly interested in pursuing this discussion, or any discussion here, for that matter. I don't, however, believe the problem is that the chit-chat threads exist. I believe the "problem" is that FIRST is a lot bigger than it used to be and that accessibility has lowered the caliber of its participants.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

What more reason do you need? The inanity of chit-chat will potentially hurt both the people who post and the people who use the site as a resource without participating.

2 thoughts come to mind -

a) Has the Chit-Chat forum always been a liability then?
b) I would think that a higher up from Delphi would be able to distinguish the difference between a humorous Chit-Chat post and a serious, content packed Technical Forum post.

[David Hoff]

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

2 thoughts come to mind -

a) Has the Chit-Chat forum always been a liability then?
b) I would think that a higher up from Delphi would be able to distinguish the difference between a humorous Chit-Chat post and a serious, content packed Technical Forum post.

To add to this, there will always be a liability in these types of forums. There is a chance that there will be bad post in other forums as well, so I don't see the need to remove one forum when they could post the same thing in another.

[J Flex 188]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

Mike Aubry (forgive me if I've forgotten how to spell your name correctly) wrote:
I don't, however, believe the problem is that the chit-chat threads exist. I believe the "problem" is that FIRST is a lot bigger than it used to be and that accessibility has lowered the caliber of its participants.

While this is slightly off-topic (pro chitchat, but that may be because I cannot experience the inner workings of being a moderator having to monitor and be the balance of a code of conduct), I must disagree with the opinion that the accessibility of FIRST has brought a lower caliber of participants. While in terms of the cold reality of grades, SAT scores and public testing, yes some people may be of a "higher caliber" than others, one of the main points of the FIRST competition is the experience. If working on a robotics team means that you are inspired to be an engineer, or a trades worker, if you don't have the grades, it doesn't mean that you are a lower caliber. I don't believe this is what M was commenting on, but I had to make sure to point that out. Accessibility is a huge problem when dealing with education as a whole. If a private school has huge resources and a number of dedicated and caring teachers that are able to dote on students all hours of the day, does that make the students themselves a higher caliber than students that attend a public high school in an urban-density area? Accessibility is not a bad thing! FIRST is being spread to more people around the world with a greater diversity of attitudes, ideas and messages. While they may not always be mindful of the rules while posting in a forum, there is no question that FIRST wouldn't be better off without them. It can mean giving a person the idea to pursue an opportunity or an area they would never have though existed before. "Caliber" isn't something that students should be defined by, especially in FIRST. There is enough pressure on everyday students now, FIRST should be an academic escape, with a level playing field and equal treatment and expectations of everyone. (as much of a pipe dream as it sounds, thats how I believe it should be).

[JAH]

I see no problem with chit chat. There are more posts in the Chit-Chat forum right now than the General forum, since the counts were last reset. If you want super technical stuff, then Chit Chat isn't your place. Chit chat brings people into this community we call Chief Delphi. I know that my first 10-15 posts were in Chit Chat because I was more confidant talking about nothing subjects than real ones. It gets people involved with other FIRST people. Thats all this is for. To get us talking, is it not? If all you use this for is technical information, go for it, but a book from your local library would do the same thing, if not better. The default for the portal is to not even show recent posts in chit chat, so if you're reading chit chat, it is because you clicked onto the chit chat forum. Plain and simple.

Other thoughts...

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

I'd rather see that there are 14 times as many insightful engineers contributing than 14 times as many high school sophomores.

I'm going to have to partially disagree with this - FIRST brings students and engineers together to interact with each other and I think we're forgetting that. From the FIRST website - "FIRST designs accessible, innovative programs to build self-confidence, knowledge and life skills while motivating young people to pursue opportunities in science, technology and engineering." So, since FIRST was created to motivate young people why is it a bad thing that hundreds of students converse and meet with each other through FIRST?

Just a thought.