Best Is Good

[Greg Needel]

i have never heard of them before but from the looks of things they are a FIRST clone. i know they were started in 92 also but there are just so many simalarites



do any teams do both?

[Rafi A]

Actually, I'm pretty sure BEST was first (at least in KS), but FIRST is best!

all puns aside, the game looks very interesting

[Billfred]

I'm not sure who really got the proverbial ball rolling--the two seemed to start on opposite ends of the country (FIRST in New Hampshire, BEST in Texas). So I don't know whether it's safe to say one was cloned from the other or not. All I can tell from the site is that FIRST got Maize Craze out before BEST started...and one year can't make that much of a difference, can it?

But back to the game, I found it interesting. Twenty-four-inch cubes, no moving around the field. This would be interesting.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Yeah, I am uncertain how the BEST game is gonna go this year. I have some philosophical issues with the game design this year, but that's neither here nor there. It will almost have to be interesting.

Also, yes there are a lot of teams that do both BEST and FIRST here in Texas. I know my team is one of them.

As for BEST being a FIRST clone, that's just not right at all. Aside from both being robotics competitions, they are very different. I won't go into all the differences, but I think BEST requires more creativity than FIRST does now. In BEST, you're given a kit of parts and that is the only thing you can use. You have very limited motors, parts, and controls and you have to make it work. The size and weight restricitons a much smaller, as well. In addition, BEST has a different system for reaching teams.

As to FIRST being best.... I don't think either is best or better, to be grammatically correct. They're different. FIRST has more engineer involvement and you get to work with more materials and big machines and fancy controls. BEST is much smaller, but the students are required to build the robots themselves. I don't want to start that holy war, but there are things to be said for that. The biggest difference is that BEST has a much greater potential for reaching schools. This is because BEST is effectively free to teams. You put down a deposit for the motors and control system, and you get it back when you return it. BEST has around 700 teams currently, so yeah. I think you can make a case for both programs, and they both are very important. And you can't really argue with a robotics competition that's free for teams, can you? You can reach a lot more students that way, really.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by Billfred

I'm not sure who really got the proverbial ball rolling--the two seemed to start on opposite ends of the country (FIRST in New Hampshire, BEST in Texas). So I don't know whether it's safe to say one was cloned from the other or not. All I can tell from the site is that FIRST got Maize Craze out before BEST started...and one year can't make that much of a difference, can it?

It again, all started with Woody.

"The idea for a BEST competition originated several years ago when two Texas Instruments engineers, Ted Mahler and Steve Marum, were serving as guides for Engineering Day at their company site in Sherman. Together with a group of high school students, they watched a video of freshmen building a robot in Woody Flowers' class at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The high school students were so interested that Ted and Steve said, "Why don't we do this?"

http://www.bestinc.org/MVC/About/history

[Joe Matt]

While BEST might be cheap, can they say they have had national press attention along the lines of FIRST, or have they had their nationals at Epcot? I dont' think so.

Seems BEST is more like FIRST + Destination Imagination, or whatever they are called now. Anyone else notice they have a link to FIRST on their main page?

[LSevcik]

Yes, you are right BEST does not have national media attention nor have they had their nationals at Epcot. Unlike FIRST, BEST is a total volunteer organization made up of dedicated engineers, professionals, and just regular moms and dads that want to make a difference in young people's lives. BEST does not charge fees or have a national headquarters that does fundraising, assembles kits, hire public relations firms or media people. The BEST volunteers that design the game, do accounting, fundraising, purchase kit of parts, assemble kits, run the competitions, do the media, web page etc do it all as volunteers. Hundreds and hundreds of hours with no pay. Why do they do this? Because they want all students to have access to a robotics competition and not have to fundraise to participate.

You are also correct that BEST has a link to FIRST on its website. It has links to lots of things associated with engineering education programs. Kudos to BEST for promoting robotics education. One would think that FIRST could learn something from BEST's example.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I just have one other thought. There are BEST teams that don't like FIRST for some reason, and apparently there are FIRST teams that look down on BEST as FIRST junior. Or atleast that's what this sounds like. I can't understand this mindset. These are both wonderful robotics competitions with the aim of inspiring students. I would think that teams would want to praise other robotics competitions that inspire students. FLL isn't at all like FIRST, but teams support it whole-heartedly. So I'm just confused why someone would want to cut down another program with the same goal as FIRST.

[Jaine Perotti]

While BEST might be cheap, can they say they have had national press attention along the lines of FIRST, or have they had their nationals at Epcot? I dont' think so.

I find it suprising that members of the FIRST community would criticize a similar organization for not getting as much "glamour" as FIRST does. Does this really matter in terms of what the students who participate in this program get out of it? While travel adds to the experience, I don't think that this is a good reason to say one competition is better than another.

I won't go into all the differences, but I think BEST requires more creativity than FIRST does now. In BEST, you're given a kit of parts and that is the only thing you can use. You have very limited motors, parts, and controls and you have to make it work.

I don't think that either organization "requires more creativity" than the other. In both competitions, teams are given a design challenge, have a deadline to complete it, and must solve the problem using the most creative means possible. both FIRST and BEST are about creativity and learning, so I don't think you can say that either does this better than another.

Unlike FIRST, BEST is a total volunteer organization made up of dedicated engineers, professionals, and just regular moms and dads that want to make a difference in young people's lives....The BEST volunteers that design the game, do accounting, fundraising, purchase kit of parts, assemble kits, run the competitions, do the media, web page etc do it all as volunteers. Hundreds and hundreds of hours with no pay. Why do they do this? Because they want all students to have access to a robotics competition and not have to fundraise to participate.

Does the fact that FIRST isn't entirely made up of volunteers undermine the fact that they are dedicated individuals who want to promote robotics education? I personally don't think so. Also, FIRST has many volunteers that work hard for the same reasons.

Kudos to BEST for promoting robotics education.
One would think that FIRST could learn something from BEST's example.

And FIRST doesn't? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what is being said here.

I just have one other thought. There are BEST teams that don't like FIRST for some reason, and apparently there are FIRST teams that look down on BEST as FIRST junior. Or atleast that's what this sounds like. I can't understand this mindset. These are both wonderful robotics competitions with the aim of inspiring students. I would think that teams would want to praise other robotics competitions that inspire students. FLL isn't at all like FIRST, but teams support it whole-heartedly. So I'm just confused why someone would want to cut down another program with the same goal as FIRST.

I completely agree with the above statement. There is absolutely no good reason for FIRSTers to criticize BEST for doing the same thing that FIRST does, which is to inspire people to become more interested in science and technoogy. Conversely, it is not right for those who are involved in BEST to be critical of FIRST. "Gracious professionalism" should not be a phrase used by FIRSTers solely within their own organization; they should demonstrate it towards outside organizations that promote science and technology as well.

Overall, I think that BEST sounds like a great program that encourages students to get involved in the fields of science and technology. It sounds like a great competition for FIRST teams to get involved in during the offseason; the timing of the game release, build period, and competitions are convienient for participation by FIRST teams. I would like to encourage other FIRST teams to get involved, although I am not sure if our team can join...I will inquire. The fact that it is a very low cost program would be an added benefit for FIRST teams, as many of us have tight enough budgets to begin with, let alone spending money to enter in another expensive robotics competition. Sounds like a great program!!!

[Joe Matt]

Hey, I"m not slamming BEST, I'm just pointing out what I see. I havn't been to a BEST competition nor have I ever heard of them before today. I agree that just because BEST is 100% volunteer dosn't make it any better. My mom and dad have done many things for FIRST. My dad has been a regional judge and inspector head all the way to a judge in Altanta. Did he get paid? Nope. My mom has been working on field reset and on regional survey crew. She will be heading up the local regional VIP area. Does she get paid. Nope

Just because FIRST advertises and gets money dosn't mean it's worse than BEST, nor does it need to learn anything from BEST.

Here's what I know and see:

An organization that gets money from outside sources tends to run better in bad times than an organization that is run out of pocket by two guys. That's what I know.

Hopefully when we move to Philly next year we can look into this BEST thing more. And also sorry about how the glamor post turned out, I was just saying that mabey FIRST has achieved something BEST hasn't (or can't, I don't know yet).

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by JosephM

An organization that gets money from outside sources tends to run better in bad times than an organization that is run out of pocket by two guys. That's what I know.

To clear one thing up, BEST is not run out of pocket by anyone. It is also funded by corporate and other donations. It just doesn't have any paid staff.
Funding is raised by and goes to local hubs that then purchase kit materials and provide the kit and control system to a school for a nominal deposit that is refunded when the control system is returned. BEST currently has dozens of hubs like this nationwide serving about 700 teams.

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

To clear one thing up, BEST is not run out of pocket by anyone. It is also funded by corporate and other donations. It just doesn't have any paid staff.
Funding is raised by and goes to local hubs that then purchase kit materials and provide the kit and control system to a school for a nominal deposit that is refunded when the control system is returned. BEST currently has dozens of hubs like this nationwide serving about 700 teams.

Thanks for the correction mate. It sounded like it was through what I've read. Thanks.

Also, I'm looking into mabey a BEST team when I go to college to start up, just to see if there is interest, if there is, then we'll go to a FIRST team.

[CyberWolf_22]

Best robotics is a very good program. Team 647 is a central Texas team, we participate in both BEST and FIRST, and they both definitely have different challenges to overcome and require loads of creativity. I am a programmer on my team so best is not as fun for me because it is very limited in the control system side of the robot but it is nice because it gives me some time to get my hands a little dirty in the mechanical side of things. Our robot for best this year in some respects is more complicated than anything we have built for First because it has a double articulated arm, which is something we have never tried with first (it is amazing what you can do with plywood, springs, and nylon string).
We also use best as an introduction to robotics for our rookie members, our upperclassmen and I try to act as mentors for the new people on the team, so they are ready for first and understand the six week time period and also the design process.
Another thing is that compared to other FIRST teams we have a small machine shop with just a couple drill presses, band saws, and a sheet metal break, but at BEST, we have one of the better machine shops of the teams.

[Arefin Bari]

There are 15 other high schools in broward county (florida) who are involved in this BEST (Boosting Engineering, Science, and Technology) competition... us being one of them. this is our second year doing this. when i first saw the kit of parts it reminded me of the kit of parts of FIRST from back in 1992. This competition is really hand on since you are not allowed to have your teacher or any mentors help you. great experience for rookies on the team also. we are in our 4th week building period... 2 more to go. here comes the NanoC@ts... yes we had to change our team name since the team name has to relate to the game...

[RoboMom]

Sorry to get off subject at hand, but figured someone here would know.
What is the name of the robotics competition that the IEEE runs?
Thanks.