Dilema...

[Billfred]

Hey there! I know a few of the bases have been covered, but I figured I'd go through and answer any of the ones I know. (By the way, my team, 1293, was a rookie team last year. We started from scratch as well.)

First, don't lose sleep over materials. Teams have made their robots out of everything from aluminum to plywood, all with high degrees of success. The two-speed transmissions and all are nice to have, but are by no means required to be competitive.

With 25-45 team members, you'll be fine. 1293 was about that size last year, and we had a pretty good rookie season. Programming in C isn't too terrible (shoot, I got the robot moving once). As for previous supplies, don't sweat it--it might help in building faster, but they've got the same limits as you (usually the kit plus $3000 in extra stuff, but that's subject to change).

While the 2004 game won't be what we see next year, I'd highly recommend checking out www.soap108.com for some videos of matches. It should give you a good idea of the size, complexity, and variety of the robots.

And while I may be biased, I'll say this--you won't regret joining FIRST.

[Elgin Clock]

Hello and Welcome to FIRST (hopefully).

All 1500 or so teams in FIRST were rookies at one point or another. That should give you some comfort.
As many have mentioned before, ChiefDelphi.com is a great resource for all your questions during the intense six weeks of building, and throughout the year.
Since you have knowledge of pneumatics and programming, you are halfway there.
The other half (robot construction) can be kept as simple as you want, or you can come up with some one of a kind devices for your robot. For the true rookie experience, it may be best to start with the premade chassis that FIRST introduced to the kit of parts last year.
Many teams have used this, and have done very well with it.
Sometimes it's not what fancy bells and whistles you can include on your robot, but how you use what you have.

As for what you can expect for the actual kickoff event, and also to have a glimpse into that premade chassis I was talking about earlier, you can check out the archived webcast of the 2003 kickoff here:
http://robotics.nasa.gov/events/webcasts/kickoff.htm

Originally Posted by Billfred

As for previous supplies, don't sweat it--it might help in building faster, but they've got the same limits as you (usually the kit plus $3000 in extra stuff, but that's subject to change).

As for the previous supplies, no team is allowed to re-use old parts. The only thing we can do is make new parts based on the old ideas, and potentially improve them.

The only thing I see as all the Israeli teams being at a disadvantage to the rest of the rookies, is the fact that no one has done this type of thing in Israel, and thus no one can (physically) come to your aid if you happen to get in a pinch (unless some nicely funded teams from the US, UK, or Brazil want to use some frequent flyer miles and fly you out a mentor from an existing team).

BUT, as also stated before, your team is already at an advantage from the rest of the Israeli teams, in that you have signed up and are communicating with the rest of the FIRST community by posting here.

With that said; I hope you decide to join FIRST, wish you good luck, and offer the help from myself, and all the rest of the ~5,000 active members on this forum.

[MissInformation]

The way I see it, you already have an advantage over a lot of FIRST teams (old and new). You don’t have to worry about funding and half of your team already has some experience with pneumatics, and electronics. That is where my team is right now and we’re a veteran team.

What do you consider “finished”? If you consider it having a working robot crated up at the end of the build season, that’s not too hard, especially if you keep it simple. Of course, two years ago, my team had to ship their robot unfinished because they ran out of time, however they worked on it during their first Regional and eventually did get it running. Do you consider finished as having a robot that works flawlessly throughout the whole competition? There may be some teams that can build a robot that does that, but you will see most teams working on their robots in-between matches, some more frantically than others. Or do you equate finished with winning? Last year, my team made it into the semi-finals at the VCU Regional. It was very exciting, almost overwhelming in it’s intensity, however, winning would not have made me more proud of them than I already was.

The 6-week build season is hectic and often frustrating, but it’s amazing to watch the students work to overcome the challenges and come together as a team. I don’t know how good your other projects are, but I do know that FIRST is absolutely amazing. And I think if you give it a chance, you won’t regret it, even if it doesn’t go the way you imagine it should.

Heidi

[Andy Baker]

Yov,

Welcome to FIRST!

As you can see, since you have over 10 replies to this thread within 1 hour, people are eager and willing to help. This site (and others) is a tool for all kinds of assistance. Ask and you shall receive.

Andy Baker

[Yov]

wow
I am truly amazed at the number of people so eager to help, and I think it's safe to say you convinced me
Now all that's left is to convince the rest of the class heh...

This project sounds phenominal, I can't wait to start (if we do chose to start it).

Thank you all so much for your help, and I hope to see you all here in the future

[MikeDubreuil]

Yov,
Welcome to the FIRST family. This is a truly unique competition unlike any you’ve probably ever participated here. FIRST is a place where the teams help each other to grow into what we have become today. In FIRST we cherish an idea called Gracious Professionalism. It means so many things but the basic principal is that you always act as if your Grandmother was watching over you shoulder. You won’t find teams giving you bad advice to increase their own chances of winning. While at competition teams help other teams to improve their robot. Some rookie teams have come to a regional or nationals without a working robot and with the help of other veteran teams have created a competitive robot in less than a day (this is of course not recommended, but just a last resort).

You shouldn’t be concerned about technical complexity. In January you will receive a kit of parts. This kit has been designed to provide most of the parts you’ll need to create a basic robot. In fact, for the last several years FIRST has held a mini competition on kick-off day with FIRST staff creating robots from only the kit of parts.

What you are seeing on ChiefDelphi.com is the technical elite of FIRST coming together and sharing ideas. Most teams do not build multi-motor shifting transmission. In fact, I would sincerely not recommend you create a very complicated robot your rookie year.

Many times you will hear robots that have designed with the KISS philosophy; it’s an acronym that stands for Keep It Simple Stupid. Basically, the best ideas are usually the one’s that are very simple. For instance, a four wheeled robot that has two casters in the back and two powered wheels in the front.

Twenty-five to forty-five people is more than enough for a FIRST robotics team. It sounds like many of them have very good technical backgrounds. A good candidate for a team member is someone with a good head on their shoulders and a willingness to learn. It sounds like you have very many people like that. Another important thing to remember is that the FIRST family is always willing to help on ChiefDelphi.com. If you have a specific question about something very complicated, there’s probably a seasoned expert in the field who is willing to answer your question here on the forum.

As a 6 year FIRST veteran myself- 3 years as being a student in high school and 3 years of being a college mentor; I enthusiastically encourage you to participate in the program. Good luck with influencing your classmates to participate in FIRST. I hope to see you at Nationals, or should I say Worlds next year

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Yov

wow
I am truly amazed at the number of people so eager to help, and I think it's safe to say you convinced me
Now all that's left is to convince the rest of the class heh...

This project sounds phenominal, I can't wait to start (if we do chose to start it).

Thank you all so much for your help, and I hope to see you all here in the future

Yov,

You will find that around here people are actually looking for ways to help. This is an attitude that you will need to foster among the teams there in Israel. Here it has developed over a period of years to the point where for most of us it is a struggle NOT to help. But it has been a deliberate effort to get to this point. You have the advantage of being able to say "but that's how they do it over there!". I can't think of the number of times I've seen people crowded around a robot with one or two guys in a different team's uniforms poking around inside and saying "oh here's the problem!".

I have heard that NASA is trying to pair engineers who are active on teams here with Israeli teams. So chances are you will have somebody to ask specific questions. I know our team has volunteered for this.

One suggestion and you might want to pass it on to other teams over there: Set up some system for sending pictures and even movies over the net. Speaking as a mentor of other teams, sometimes it is very easy to see things that are hard to explain. Last year I went to one team's shop because they had asked for help. In about 3 minutes I solved a problem they had been struggling with for days. Once I was able to SEE the problem, I was able to tell them how to use a piece of equipment I didn't know they had until I walked in, to solve it. I hung around a little longer after that, but I had made an hour drive each way for 3 minutes worth of work, so I wanted to make the drive time pay off a little more. Since the trip to visit you guys is just a little longer doing a little homework now could save you a lot of time later.

ChrisH

[Andy Baker]

Here is some food for thought:

Kulicke and Soffa would be an excellent technical sponsor for teams near Haifa, if they are interested in becoming involved. K+S makes some amazing surface mount and circuit board processing equipment. If you can find engineers who design their equipment in Haifa and convince them to mentor your team, then you have a great local resource.

I am sure that there are other potential sponsors in Israel, but this is just one. Good luck.

Andy B.

[Yov]

heh, I ctrl+a ctrl+c'd my post (I've had some bad experiences with forums before) to "save" it before i posted, but for some reason I hit ctrl+r instead of c...
Good news is I hit the print screen button before it refreshed so:


Thanks again for all your help, sunday is decision day and I will definatly be taking points here for presentation.
I just finished watching the 2003 kickoff video (1:45:00 hehe) posted here (thanks Elgin Clock), and I'll be reffering these forums to other Israeli teams even if we end up not doing this.

Now stop posting caus I feel guilty taking up your time and effort

See you in the finals (whether through video or face to face )

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by Yov

heh, I ctrl+a ctrl+c'd my post (I've had some bad experiences with forums before) to "save" it before i posted, but for some reason I hit ctrl+r instead of c...
Good news is I hit the print screen button before it refreshed so:


Thanks again for all your help, sunday is decision day and I will definatly be taking points here for presentation.
I just finished watching the 2003 kickoff video (1:45:00 hehe) posted here (thanks Elgin Clock), and I'll be reffering these forums to other Israeli teams even if we end up not doing this.

Now stop posting caus I feel guilty taking up your time and effort

See you in the finals (whether through video or face to face )

You're not waising our time, or mine, that's what we're here for!

[RoboMom]

Yov, you probably know that each of the 10 teams has already been paired with a team over here for mentoring help. And all you have to do is ask the question in this forum and see what happens!

You are in a unique situation of having 10 rookie teams that you can consult with there too. You are not alone.

You will soon realize that this is not about building a robot and about what you don't know. And I know that Team 007 is really looking forward to working with Team 1577!

[tkwetzel]

I second everything that everyone has already said.

A suggestion that might help you to convince the others to join FIRST is that you could print out some or all of this thread and share it with them right then and there. If it has the same reaction on them that it did on you, then you may have an easy vote.

[Yov]

Well not all of us here speak english heh...



New question!

A simple one at that, the amount of work seems to be something most of my class is worried about, I was wondering how often do you work on the robots during the 6 weeks? (days per week, hours per day, again keeping in mind that we are a rookie team with 25-35 students)

thanks!

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Yov

heh, I ctrl+a ctrl+c'd my post (I've had some bad experiences with forums before) to "save" it before i posted, but for some reason I hit ctrl+r instead of c...
Good news is I hit the print screen button before it refreshed so:


Thanks again for all your help, sunday is decision day and I will definatly be taking points here for presentation.
I just finished watching the 2003 kickoff video (1:45:00 hehe) posted here (thanks Elgin Clock), and I'll be reffering these forums to other Israeli teams even if we end up not doing this.

Now stop posting caus I feel guilty taking up your time and effort

See you in the finals (whether through video or face to face )

Believe me, what you're talking about is a better use of time than 90% of all other activity on CD nowadays.

Welcome to FIRST. You're going to love it, any time you have questions, feel free to post them here, no matter how much a waste of time you think they may be

Cory

[Ken Loyd]

Yov;

Welcome! Jump into FIRST with both feet! We are starting our 8th season and we are seldom sure what part of our robot will do what it is suppose to do until the day before shipping.

You posted on CD. That gives you the biggest support group in the world.

Good luck and please let Team 64 know if there is anything we can do to help.

Ken