Dilema...

[Wetzel]

Yov,

FIRST is a learning community. Look around in the threads and you will see all sorts of people asking different questions. The newer folks are asking simpler questions while the more advanced folks are asking more technical questions. (Generally)

There is already about 110 other rookie teams this year, so you won't be alone, except for that whole across the pond thing, but the English teams have that too.

You may see all the white pages here and go, we can't build any of that! How can we be competitive? I'll tell you a little secret - most teams don't build anything nearly as complex as 33s 4 speed automatic gearbox, they just drool over it. Then they get crafty and implement a part of it somewhere on their robot. Little by little, the bar goes up. This makes it look much harder for someone who is new, but remember, there are always people out here willing to help in anyway possible and don't forget the 100+ other rookies.

Good luck.

Wetzel

[Ken Loyd]

Yov;

Welcome! Jump into FIRST with both feet! We are starting our 8th season and we are seldom sure what part of our robot will do what it is suppose to do until the day before shipping.

You posted on CD. That gives you the biggest support group in the world.

Good luck and please let Team 64 know if there is anything we can do to help.

Ken

[Mike Betts]

Yov,

Don't fret about the Pascal/C stuff... I'm an old Pascal programmer myself and the two languages have quite a few similarities. As an example, replace all your BEGIN statements with { and all of your END statements with } and you are 60% there...

Read through http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/bwk-tutor.html and you will be fine.

Continue posting your questions here. I'm sure you will get a lot of help.

Mike

[MikeDubreuil]

Yov,
Welcome to the FIRST family. This is a truly unique competition unlike any you’ve probably ever participated here. FIRST is a place where the teams help each other to grow into what we have become today. In FIRST we cherish an idea called Gracious Professionalism. It means so many things but the basic principal is that you always act as if your Grandmother was watching over you shoulder. You won’t find teams giving you bad advice to increase their own chances of winning. While at competition teams help other teams to improve their robot. Some rookie teams have come to a regional or nationals without a working robot and with the help of other veteran teams have created a competitive robot in less than a day (this is of course not recommended, but just a last resort).

You shouldn’t be concerned about technical complexity. In January you will receive a kit of parts. This kit has been designed to provide most of the parts you’ll need to create a basic robot. In fact, for the last several years FIRST has held a mini competition on kick-off day with FIRST staff creating robots from only the kit of parts.

What you are seeing on ChiefDelphi.com is the technical elite of FIRST coming together and sharing ideas. Most teams do not build multi-motor shifting transmission. In fact, I would sincerely not recommend you create a very complicated robot your rookie year.

Many times you will hear robots that have designed with the KISS philosophy; it’s an acronym that stands for Keep It Simple Stupid. Basically, the best ideas are usually the one’s that are very simple. For instance, a four wheeled robot that has two casters in the back and two powered wheels in the front.

Twenty-five to forty-five people is more than enough for a FIRST robotics team. It sounds like many of them have very good technical backgrounds. A good candidate for a team member is someone with a good head on their shoulders and a willingness to learn. It sounds like you have very many people like that. Another important thing to remember is that the FIRST family is always willing to help on ChiefDelphi.com. If you have a specific question about something very complicated, there’s probably a seasoned expert in the field who is willing to answer your question here on the forum.

As a 6 year FIRST veteran myself- 3 years as being a student in high school and 3 years of being a college mentor; I enthusiastically encourage you to participate in the program. Good luck with influencing your classmates to participate in FIRST. I hope to see you at Nationals, or should I say Worlds next year

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Yov

wow
I am truly amazed at the number of people so eager to help, and I think it's safe to say you convinced me
Now all that's left is to convince the rest of the class heh...

This project sounds phenominal, I can't wait to start (if we do chose to start it).

Thank you all so much for your help, and I hope to see you all here in the future

Yov,

You will find that around here people are actually looking for ways to help. This is an attitude that you will need to foster among the teams there in Israel. Here it has developed over a period of years to the point where for most of us it is a struggle NOT to help. But it has been a deliberate effort to get to this point. You have the advantage of being able to say "but that's how they do it over there!". I can't think of the number of times I've seen people crowded around a robot with one or two guys in a different team's uniforms poking around inside and saying "oh here's the problem!".

I have heard that NASA is trying to pair engineers who are active on teams here with Israeli teams. So chances are you will have somebody to ask specific questions. I know our team has volunteered for this.

One suggestion and you might want to pass it on to other teams over there: Set up some system for sending pictures and even movies over the net. Speaking as a mentor of other teams, sometimes it is very easy to see things that are hard to explain. Last year I went to one team's shop because they had asked for help. In about 3 minutes I solved a problem they had been struggling with for days. Once I was able to SEE the problem, I was able to tell them how to use a piece of equipment I didn't know they had until I walked in, to solve it. I hung around a little longer after that, but I had made an hour drive each way for 3 minutes worth of work, so I wanted to make the drive time pay off a little more. Since the trip to visit you guys is just a little longer doing a little homework now could save you a lot of time later.

ChrisH

[Andy Baker]

Here is some food for thought:

Kulicke and Soffa would be an excellent technical sponsor for teams near Haifa, if they are interested in becoming involved. K+S makes some amazing surface mount and circuit board processing equipment. If you can find engineers who design their equipment in Haifa and convince them to mentor your team, then you have a great local resource.

I am sure that there are other potential sponsors in Israel, but this is just one. Good luck.

Andy B.

[Yov]

heh, I ctrl+a ctrl+c'd my post (I've had some bad experiences with forums before) to "save" it before i posted, but for some reason I hit ctrl+r instead of c...
Good news is I hit the print screen button before it refreshed so:


Thanks again for all your help, sunday is decision day and I will definatly be taking points here for presentation.
I just finished watching the 2003 kickoff video (1:45:00 hehe) posted here (thanks Elgin Clock), and I'll be reffering these forums to other Israeli teams even if we end up not doing this.

Now stop posting caus I feel guilty taking up your time and effort

See you in the finals (whether through video or face to face )

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by Yov

heh, I ctrl+a ctrl+c'd my post (I've had some bad experiences with forums before) to "save" it before i posted, but for some reason I hit ctrl+r instead of c...
Good news is I hit the print screen button before it refreshed so:


Thanks again for all your help, sunday is decision day and I will definatly be taking points here for presentation.
I just finished watching the 2003 kickoff video (1:45:00 hehe) posted here (thanks Elgin Clock), and I'll be reffering these forums to other Israeli teams even if we end up not doing this.

Now stop posting caus I feel guilty taking up your time and effort

See you in the finals (whether through video or face to face )

You're not waising our time, or mine, that's what we're here for!

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Yov

heh, I ctrl+a ctrl+c'd my post (I've had some bad experiences with forums before) to "save" it before i posted, but for some reason I hit ctrl+r instead of c...
Good news is I hit the print screen button before it refreshed so:


Thanks again for all your help, sunday is decision day and I will definatly be taking points here for presentation.
I just finished watching the 2003 kickoff video (1:45:00 hehe) posted here (thanks Elgin Clock), and I'll be reffering these forums to other Israeli teams even if we end up not doing this.

Now stop posting caus I feel guilty taking up your time and effort

See you in the finals (whether through video or face to face )

Believe me, what you're talking about is a better use of time than 90% of all other activity on CD nowadays.

Welcome to FIRST. You're going to love it, any time you have questions, feel free to post them here, no matter how much a waste of time you think they may be

Cory

[RoboMom]

Yov, you probably know that each of the 10 teams has already been paired with a team over here for mentoring help. And all you have to do is ask the question in this forum and see what happens!

You are in a unique situation of having 10 rookie teams that you can consult with there too. You are not alone.

You will soon realize that this is not about building a robot and about what you don't know. And I know that Team 007 is really looking forward to working with Team 1577!

[tkwetzel]

I second everything that everyone has already said.

A suggestion that might help you to convince the others to join FIRST is that you could print out some or all of this thread and share it with them right then and there. If it has the same reaction on them that it did on you, then you may have an easy vote.

[Yov]

Well not all of us here speak english heh...



New question!

A simple one at that, the amount of work seems to be something most of my class is worried about, I was wondering how often do you work on the robots during the 6 weeks? (days per week, hours per day, again keeping in mind that we are a rookie team with 25-35 students)

thanks!

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Yov

Well not all of us here speak english heh...



New question!

A simple one at that, the amount of work seems to be something most of my class is worried about, I was wondering how often do you work on the robots during the 6 weeks? (days per week, hours per day, again keeping in mind that we are a rookie team with 25-35 students)

thanks!

This can vary wildly. My team always had a very small dedicated core that showed up to all meetings. We pretty much met every day, on weekdays, 2-3 hours, weekends, almost all day, sometimes with a day or two between meetings when we were waiting on parts and had nothing else to work one. Since we would only have a maximum of around 10 people who would show up and actually worked instead of sitting around, the core members spent tons of time during the build season.

You guys have the advantage of all knowing nothing about FIRST. Yes, advantage. You don't have to be the freshman that sits there and isn't allowed to do anything because you "don't know how". You ALL don't know how! You all get to start from the same place and learn together, and soon enough between the 30 of you, you'll all be building a robot.

No matter how many people you have on your team, FIRST is a very large time committment. This turns people off immediately, but I guarentee you that every person who puts the time into the program will reap it's benefits and learn a lot about fields you may not have been exposed to otherwise.

Cory

[Allison K]

Originally Posted by Yov

Well not all of us here speak english heh...



New question!

A simple one at that, the amount of work seems to be something most of my class is worried about, I was wondering how often do you work on the robots during the 6 weeks? (days per week, hours per day, again keeping in mind that we are a rookie team with 25-35 students)

thanks!

It varies by team. One team I mentor builds officially three days a week from 3 pm - 8 pm. But that really only holds the first week or two. After that it's as much as we can be there (including weekends).

The other team I mentor is a rookie and we're planning on building Monday - Friday until 4-6. We'll add more time as we need it.

I know it sounds like a huge time commitment but it is worth it 100 times over.

~Allison

[RogerR]

Originally Posted by Yov

Well not all of us here speak english heh...



New question!

A simple one at that, the amount of work seems to be something most of my class is worried about, I was wondering how often do you work on the robots during the 6 weeks? (days per week, hours per day, again keeping in mind that we are a rookie team with 25-35 students)

thanks!

this usually depends on the team...for my team, it was usually 7 days a week, with 4-6 hours spent on weekdays, and approx. double that on weekends. this can change though....on the last day before ship date we were there till 4:00 am trying to get our robot to work. i've also heard of some teams having a 'move-in day' where some of the more dedicated team members move into the shop, and live there for a couple of days; i've never done that myself, though.