A Water Competition Next Year?!?!?!

[Joe Ross]

Dave, your story doesn't match with the story that I was told. First of all, the scrimmage was in the summer of 2000 ;-) I know that much for sure, especially since Archer didn't have a robot in the summer of 1999, as their team started for the 2000 season.

Unfortunately, I was not there, so my story is only second hand from my team mates. Beach Bot was the #1 seed, but I was told that the only reason for that was that they didn't have any electrical problems during the course of the matches. Every other team had at least one match where they had some type of problem. My team mates were suprised at how few electrical problems there were, considering the circumstances, but apparently they were present.

On another note, if the guys on junkyard wars can build a submarine in 13 hours, think of what a FIRST team could do in 6 weeks!

[Melissa Nute]

Originally posted by NeO_Weapon
Was there ever a FIRST Competition where the playing field was filled with water like a pool? Wouldn't it be cool if this would happen next year? Imagine all the different kinds of robot designs from using motors and using simple paddles. Tell me some of you ideas.

All I can see from that is almost every robot being dead on the field.

[DaBruteForceGuy]

All I can see from that is almost every robot being dead on the field.

not if they use enough duct tape

Well, enjineering is based on problem solving so i think that whatever they through at us, we could come up with something...right? I mean, they would have to give us a little more than 6 weeks to build something that complicated.
And, well then calculations would be a pain in the butt because everything is lighter in water, and for calculating resistance we would have to somehow factor in the the mass of the water displaced and... Ok maybe we do have our limitations

[Harrison]

I think a water match could be done, although it would be hard to set up.

The robot inspection would had to include throwing it in a pool to make sure nothing gets fryed...and I bet many things would fry...lol. Then what happens if your bot dies during a match? Who's the poor person who gets to go for a swim to get it?

But besides the robots part of it, think about how they would set-up the playing fields. Some how I think setting up 40-foot long pools in a bunch of hockey arena's wouldn't be the easiest thing (or cheapest) to do.

Not that I wouldn't mind seeing this happen - I doubt it will.

But, I think a water obsicacle could be done.

A couple years ago where there was the bridge in the middle of the field, why not change the bride to a moat (say 5" deep).

Something like a moat would certainly make people think about more design possibilites...Would be interesting...

But hey, could always put SOME water everywhere on the field...Enough so you could build a 'boat' or something with wheels...Be interesting to see that.

[dlavery]

Originally posted by Joe Ross
Dave, your story doesn't match with the story that I was told. First of all, the scrimmage was in the summer of 2000 ;-) I know that much for sure, especially since Archer didn't have a robot in the summer of 1999, as their team started for the 2000 season.

You are correct - I was off by one summer (I was converting between English and Metric calendars, and got confused! ). There was a small scrimmage at JPL in the summer of 1999, but it was not the one that made everyone damp. As for problems at the 2000 scrimmage, there were some throughout the day but every one that we saw, and every one reported to us, was mechanical in nature or a control system problem caused by something other than the rain (i.e. software problems, disconnected PWM cables, etc.). Frankly, all of us were amazed that there were not massive electrical problems, given that the robots were put in an envionrmental condition for which they were never designed.

I remember standing under an umbrella with Dave Brown at the competition (it's ironic that the robots ran fine in the rain, but WE needed an umbrella...) and prognosticating about Dean and Woodie adding water hazards to future competitions after they saw how well the robots performed. There are lots of good reasons why this may end up to be a bad idea (DUH!) but it is still fun to think about. And who knows, maybe one of us will come up with a really creative, innovative way to add water hazards to the game that is also practical and easily implemented.

Maybe a kiddie pool in the middle of the play field as an obstacle? In the game, you can choose to ignore it and go around it. But if you make your robot water-tolerable and go through the pool, you get some major point advantage in the game.

All the Navy-sponsored teams would have a real advantage!

-dave

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"I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known."
- Walt Disney

[Rick]

All the Navy-sponsored teams would have a real advantage!

yeah go navy (we are in cahoots with the navy (they help us out))

[Gui Cavalcanti]

FIRST is shying away from stationary playing fields now that it has 17 regionals. If every field costs $3,000 to build, and you have to build it 17 different places... yeah, you can see where that's going. That's why they were with the "mobile" goals... which, if you ask my team (who had to lug them routinely up and down 2 flights of stairs for storage and practice), aren't very mobile.

I'd personally like to see a shifting playing field like the original game, Maize Craze. Playing a game in corn would just be so cool. Then you have playing fields being more equal - tried and true teams that know how to get the most traction possible would be on a somewhat equal level with the rookies who have to think up designs on how to handle a shifting field.

The water could work... just 1 or 2 inches though. Enough to slow 'bots down and make drivers think about racing through. I think if there were some rules applied to inspection, more of a pool game could work, but once again we come to the problem that radio waves don't like going through water.

I think FIRST should make a game that has so many obstacles one team can't possibly do all of them (leading many teams to try). You know, sort of like Lego League - every field has tons of objectives, and robot's don't have to do all of them.

At least, however, I think we need to change what the playing field is made of. Carpet's getting kind of old, and everybody knows how to do well on it now. Maybe linoleum, or tile?

While I'm dreaming, I also want the game to get more electronic and programming focused, so some automation should be a requirement

[Jeff Waegelin]

My first thought when I saw this thread was "ARGHHHHH NOT ANOTHER WATER THREAD!" I recalled a rather extensive discussion of this over the summer, but this one seems to be a little better than the last. The story of the rather wet scrimmage in California was definitely interesting.

Anyways, I don't really think FIRST will ever make a field entirely out of water. It's just too impractical to set up, a lot of the facilities where competitions are held wouldn't appreciate water everywhere, and not being able to access a water "field" could be a great hindrance to some teams. While I could see a small water obstacle, an all-water field is just too hard to deal with.

[Nicki]

I would have to agree with DaBruteForceGuy's comment about the duct tape!

I think a submarine mission would be awsome. Our team has been talking about it for as long as I can remember. My older brother, who got me involved in the program, is convinced that it is going to happen in time. I am kind of dissapointed that with this being my last year, I will miss the opportunity of a water mission. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to start my own team so I can take part in what I think would be the greatest task ever asked of our teams to accomplish.

[Harrison]

Here's something no one has thought about w/ a water playing field...

At the end of the matches you know how they call teams down to get awards and stuff...How would you do that in a pool? It would mean having to make a seperate awards area... more $$$...and if you ask me FIRST is already costing enough $$$ lol.

Also, what happenes if the pool springs a leak? That'll mean a lot of duct tape...lol

[Scorpion515]

Hmm...Good Point.

[PsychoPhil]

It would be interesting and I would like it, but as many others said before, there would be MANY dead robots!

A lot of precision work would be necessary that I don't think EVERY single team can do. the robot would have to go completely into a shell where no water could come in. And if you get any other electrical problems you have to open your wet bot in between matches, very complicated. I think it would be possible and maybe it will happen some time. I'd like to see it happen, ten we would see the true engineers...

Conclusion: Would be awesome but won't happen

so long, Philip

[PsychoPhil]

Originally posted by Harrison
At the end of the matches you know how they call teams down to get awards and stuff...How would you do that in a pool? It would mean having to make a seperate awards area... more $$$...and if you ask me FIRST is already costing enough $$$ lol.

Also, what happenes if the pool springs a leak? That'll mean a lot of duct tape...lol

lol, good points...

But FIRST is rich enough to afford the water stuff and organize it...

[Hailfire]

If it does happen, build a hover capable robot. That is... if it is possible.

[Adam Y.]

If it does happen, build a hover capable robot. That is... if it is possible.

When it you can't go through the obstacle go over it. A hovercraft would work and wouldn't be that hard to build considering people can build one in 10 hours on junkyard wars.