2005 NASA Grant Recipients Released

[Alex Golec]

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

With that said, I really wish that some company would come up with some form of aid to help dying teams who have been around for a long time. It seems like we are running into more and more of these teams every year...its a shame to see such traditions falling apart because resources just can't hold up anymore.

I'm not trying to sound bitter, but it just seems like everyone is throwing money at the newer teams and the old dogs who have paid their due are now forgotten.

The FIRST grant is a good place for the older teams to go, but that only covers 16% of the cost now. In a best-case scenario, these NASA grants would be able to expand from the 'developing' regions to all regions of the world.

Originally Posted by the FIRST website

Once again, NASA is providing sponsorships to assist teams in developing self-sustaining FIRST programs in their local areas.

These sponsorships cover the cost of entry to one regional event ($6000.00) as well as the kit of parts. These sponsorships are targeted at new FIRST teams that need assistance in getting their program started within their local community.

There are many more regions out in the world that need help with funding to keep themselves alive. Who knows what can happen in the future- maybe more companies can join into donating funds to develop new regions. One such place that I believe could use some assistance for survival is the Israeli region. But, we have to be reminded of the positives of these grants, no matter who receives them: They greatly benefit to the sucess of a regional by allowing many more teams to be there to participate. Congrats again to all recipients

_Alex

[Amanda Morrison]

Funny. I hear these people employed by NASA seem to be pretty darn smart. I'm pretty sure they know what the words 'first' and 'second' mean.

Therefore, I assume they must have some pretty good ideas as to why they gave the teams that they did the money that they did. I know why. Do you? Did you know before you posted? Did you ask anyone?

No offense, but we all know Beatty isn't in need of the money.

At first I was outraged, I mean BEATY is getting a FIRST grant

I have nothing against large, well funded teams, but these grants are for the teams that cant find a way to compete otherwise... to give one to one of, if not THE powerhouse teams in the country is absolutely absurd in my mind.

it makes me frown. So i am hoping this is either a mix up

there's something SERIOUSLY wrong with NASA's selection policy

Well gee shucks golly!
I heard that that 71 team gets a dump truck full of $20 bills every time they get a medal. I heard that team 461 lied on their application and said they were a second year team and those gosh darn silly NASA people didn't check. I heard that Baxter 16 team wanted to cheat a few rookies out of some money. I always did know those 93 Apple folks were a bunch of cheaters.

I also heard that this thread is pretty disrespectful, rude, inconsiderate, misguided, and proves, truly, the outstanding ignorance that abounds on these message boards when a controversial issue comes up.

[Steve W]

Well said Amanda. GP was not very evident on this thread. Just remember folks that even with disclaimers you ARE representing your team on these threads.

[Andy Grady]

Originally Posted by Amanda Morrison

Well gee shucks golly!
I heard that that 71 team gets a dump truck full of $20 bills every time they get a medal. I heard that team 461 lied on their application and said they were a second year team and those gosh darn silly NASA people didn't check. I heard that Baxter 16 team wanted to cheat a few rookies out of some money. I always did know those 93 Apple folks were a bunch of cheaters.

I also heard that this thread is pretty disrespectful, rude, inconsiderate, misguided, and proves, truly, the outstanding ignorance that abounds on these message boards when a controversial issue comes up.

While I feel that its important that people maybe think a little and check facts before making posts...I also feel that demeaning or talking down to those who made the mistakes isn't appropriate. Please everyone...including those on both sides of the line...use some respect for others opinions.

I'm not trying to single your post out Amanda, I would have PMed you had it been just you involved, but I've just about heard enough from everyone on this subject for the day.

Sorry

-Andy Grady

[Amanda Morrison]

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

While I feel that its important that people maybe think a little and check facts before making posts...I also feel that demeaning or talking down to those who made the mistakes isn't appropriate. Please everyone...including those on both sides of the line...use some respect for others opinions.

I'm not trying to single your post out Amanda, I would have PMed you had it been just you involved, but I've just about heard enough from everyone on this subject for the day.

Sorry

-Andy Grady

Andy,

I didn't post what I did because any certain team was involved, or because of any particular person that replied. I stand by what I said - this thread, and a lot of the replies involved, are indeed disrespectful, rude, inconsiderate, and misguided. Moreover, I have made my share of ignorant posts on CD, and because of being corrected I certainly learned my lesson.

Any team singled out - especially these seven - should certainly feel defensive. I know I would, should I be publicly reminded of how much money is in my bank account. The basis on which the teams are being judged is pretty ridiculous.
Amanda

p.s. - don't say 'sorry'. Even if someone doesn't agree, you should never been sorry for your opinion (that goes for everyone on ChiefDelphi or otherwise).

/edit - I'll rely on someone else to clarify, and I'll now take the role of the ignorant FIRSTer. I believe NASA allows a set amount for each regional's grants. And I believe that if rookies or underfunded teams in their first or second year had applied for the Boilermaker Regional, they would have gotten funding.

[Stephen Kowski]

Congratulations to those who made it!

It is unfortunate that these Grants will take several teams to an additional events when teams that applied like 1368 (Countryside High, Clearwater, FL) will fall through the cracks this year and not be able to attend even one event. How sad....I feel bad for them.

Good Luck everyone this year!

[Jay H 237]

I just want to say congratulations to all the teams that received the grants.


Second,

Originally Posted by 04-05 NASA Sponsorship Awards

Please note that NASA sponsorships are conditional upon an individual team being registered and confirmed at the specific event for which the sponsorship applies. Sponsorships are NOT transferrable to other teams or other events

(I took this from the link in Amanda's first post in this thread.)

The truth is there aren't enough grants to go around for all the teams. Also some teams, veteran or not, may not have applied for them. NASA first made sure the teams that applied met their elegibility requirements and then had to decide which teams would get them. I'm sure they had some tough decisions to make and no matter what they did they could NOT make EVERYONE happy.

Jason

[Cory]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Can't speak for everyone Amanda, but I thought I said that we should focus less on Beaty and AppleCorps getting it and more on why NASA dosn't do it broad based.

Exactly.

Noone accused those teams of being cheaters or liars.

We had a legit concern and wanted to know why well established teams who are obviously getting by (You can tell me all you want that I don't know about their finances, and you're right, but I highly doubt that a team going to 3 regionals and nationals is having financial problems) were recieving money when there are many, many teams who are struggling to scrape together enough cash to compete in one event.

Until your post, Amanda there were no personal attacks or insults. I resent the fact that everyone who questioned why these teams got the grant were labeled as "ignorant", "rude", or "disrespectful"

-Cory

[Karthik]

This thread has irked me somewhat. NASA generously donates a few truckload of money to FIRST every year. Instead of people coming out and thanking NASA for helping our program grow, people are immediately complaining about the allocation funds.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should blindly accept things, but maybe we could give NASA the benefit of the doubt. I think I'm safe in my assumption that NASA has a detailed approval process, and that every team that received a grant is deserving of the money.

Being a member of a team that often gets criticized for our budget, I do take offense to some of the comments in this thread. A team's financial information is private, and they don't need to justify their spending to anyone. Also, just because a team is a "powerhouse" doesn't mean that their pockets are overflowing. Success in this game comes from a wealth of ideas and good engineering, not deep pockets.

So yeah, congratulations to all the teams who earned grants, and a huge thank you to NASA for their generous sponsorship.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I'm fairly certain it's possible to both be grateful to NASA for the grants while still offering positive criticism. I haven't noticed that much complaining going on, really. To say that we cannot question what NASA does with its money because they're giving us that money seems a very odd statement to me.

I think the point of the critical people in this thread is to question the methodology of the NASA grants. If NASA truly does allocate a set amount of money to each regional, then it can obviously result in some odd grant awards like it has this year. It could also conceivably result in allocated money not being given to any teams at all if enough teams at a regional don't qualify. This could leave other teams at other regionals hanging even though there was money left over. I believe that's the point being made here.

[Ryan F.]

It seems like these threads are popping up more and more here on Chief Delphi. Almost always, they follow this same format.

1. Person from team X notices that a team/teams who appear very financially stable are receiving extra money/grants and wonder why they should be receiving such when so many other teams aren’t able to cope with the financial demands FIRST.
2. Your normal banter occurs
3. Someone believing that it’s nobody’s business to address the financial well being
of other teams comes on and makes a bold and often insulting post.
4. More people jump on the bandwagon and add their rude posts to the mix
5. Nothing happens. Nothing is resolved and people learn that it’s
not worth it to point out such issues.

I think both sides of this issue really need to think before they post. I’m going to be bias here in slanting to those pointing out these financial incidences. To me, nothing rude, insulting, inconsiderate or misguided was originally posted. Simply the issue was brought to light that teams who did not fit the qualifications of the scholarship award were recipients. This, as many people have not liked was most likely pointed out by someone on a team who is financially struggling. They have pointed out things such as the recipient teams being signed up for multiple regionals and quite apparently being some of the most financially sound teams in FIRST. One may challenge this statement asking “How do I know their financial situation”. Though it is not everyone’s business, I am sure if you were to see their level of sponsorship it would far surpass the amount many teams are dealing with, barely being able to afford another year.

The main factor that bothers me is this. In all fairness, how many veteran teams found it appropriate to apply for a 1’st or 2’nd year teams financial help? I’m sure there would be swarms of other teams applying for these scholarships if they were open to everyone. Do you really think 461, 93 and 71 are the only teams who would like to attend multiple regionals? Many teams out of their 1’st or 2’nd year that are facing the prospect of folding due to financial concerns may have seriously considered these regionals if they knew this was a possible way for them to stay alive.

I personally don’t think that the level of financing of many of these teams is my concern, but many people, myself included, are obviously wondering why these financially sound teams were the ones recieving the financial help.

Congratulations to all who got the awards.

This thread can be constructive…people have to realize that the views of others are not insults directed at them and should be civil when posting.

-Ryan

[Chris Fultz]

I believe that what NASA does or does not do with their money is their business. Whether they choose to support several regionals (like they do) or just one team, that is their business.

It is not for us to question or even offer 'constructive criticism' - it is NASA's choice.

Congratulations to all the selected teams, and thanks to NASA for their continued support of FIRST and FIRST programs.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I'll wander off topic for just a second to note two things:

First, my team was founded off one of these NASA grants, and would not be in existance without them. I am quite definitely grateful that they were and are around to help out 1st and 2nd year teams get off the ground and get their financial feet under them and running. So I feel I have to speak for those teams that I feel might be more in need of these grants.

Second, I think it's almost our duty to bring these points to NASA's attention. The presumed goal of these grants is to get regionals and teams off the ground in areas where there aren't any regionals or teams. If my assumption is wrong, then I'm obviously arguing in error and should be ignored. If my assumption is right, then NASA deserves to know if its grants program is achieving its goal. Obviously criticism on this point would let them know that there might be something wrong with their methodology. I think good sponsor-recipient relationships need two-way communication.

[Rich Kressly]

OK,

Just to clarify any misconceptions, what 71 and 93 did was exactly the same thing 103 and other veterans did in 2002-03. It was the first year of the Chesapeake Regional and we (103) were registered to go, looked at the NASA grant and saw it was primarily for rookies and second year teams. However, it was November of 2002 and we were at Ramp Riot and found out that the number of rookies/second year teams that applied was far less than the number of NASA grants available. With the grant underserved, FIRST was not going to be able to reap the full NASA benefit and we and other vets were encouraged to apply. It's also important to know that 103 applied again in 2004 along with other vets and none of those teams received second year NASA money because more rookies stepped up once the regional and the grants were more well known. My guess is that in 2006, in this new regional's second year, the grants will be fully exhausted by rookies and second year (this year's rookies) teams.

On the second point of why NASA money doesn't transfer between regionals, understand that it's not one "account" the money comes from. NASA Ames is separate from NASA Glenn is separate from NASA ... and so on. The grants are to support individual regionals from individual NASA offices.

Please, before anyone makes any assumptions, spend some time understanding the process. I've had the opportunity to have many conversations with Mike Wade personally about NASA grants and he's been very gracious. I'm sure those NASA officials making decisions elsewhere are doing just as good of a job. And if you still question NASA and its overall commitment, please go to white papers, download my testimonials and read Dave Lavery's detailed description of how their millions are spent on us.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that if all of the grants at a regional aren't used in a given year, the possibility that NASA management takes that money away for the following year exists. These veterans are most likely ensuring money for 2006 rookies. I'm quite sure that none of us would envy the job of people like Lavery, Wade, and others. We have no clue what it takes for them to convince management for gobs of money in the face of an iffy economy, budget cutbacks, and shuttle trajedies.

[Steve W]

Forgive me if my agreeing with Amanda offended anyone. When I read her post I believe that she is being a little sarcastic to get her point across. What my take was from her post is that there are too many people willing to slam other teams. I am going to take a little liberty with Team 1114 so please don't jump on me yet. Karthik if I offend PM me and I will fix it.

Team 1114 is a Canadian team sponsored by GM. They are able to attend multi regionals and Championships. They must be loaded. Look at their robot. Unlimited funds and resources.

Now let's be real. I know (and poke fun at) members of that team. I know that they don't have unlimited funds. I know that they are a very generous team with helping others with time and parts. I also know that they came to us to do part swaps so that they could manage their funds better. In reality I don't know their financial state. I do know and others that have met them know that this team, because of their funding, is able to have a large impact on FIRST and a ton of other teams. I sometimes wish that we had more money just as EVERY team in FIRST does. This is reality!!! I am really happy for the fact that they are in FIRST and at no time do I look down on them because of their funding. They have big problems, well one anyway (KARTHIK) and they can keep their money IF they keep him.

Let's rejoice in the fact that there are sponsors out there that give us money. Let's look positively for solutions that can help some of the less financially sound teams. We have seen on these threads lately that some of the older teams have been having a hard time. Every team will go through good and bad spells and how we emerge tells what type of team we are. What that means is that we must do our best and keep our heads up and always try to move forward.

Being Canadian we have no access to NASA funding but we do reap some of the benefits. More GREAT regionals, great engineers and great support for FIRST. Let's look at all of the good. If I were running a regional and I had a chance to bring Team 71 or any of the other "powerhouse" teams, I would sure try, for the sake of FIRST and putting on a good regional, to both inspire and promote.

Please understand that this post is meant to be a bit humorous as well.