YMTC: Super Duper Hook!

[Natchez]

You Make The Call (YMTC) is a series of situations where you can be the ref and make the call.

Bluateam makes the most awesome hook ever seen by man and integrates it into their Bluabot during the 6 week build period. At the beginning of week 5, Bluateam begins duplicating all of the pieces on their robot so they can use them for their practice 'bot AND for spares. 5 minutes before ship time, Bluateam completes all of the Bluabot duplicate pieces, ships their robot, and celebrates with pizza & coke. A week after ship, Bluateam comes together to put their practice 'bot together. The final step of assembly is completed by welding the four pieces of the hook and putting it on their practice 'bot. Bluateam's practices go very well and it looks like Bluabot will be unstoppable. After winning the Ippississim Regional, by far the most competitive regional in the world, Bluabot repacks each piece of their disassembled practice 'bot, including their now-welded Super Duper Hook, in their suitcases and heads for Atlanta. On Saturday during the semifinals of Newton, their Super Duper Hook crumbles from a once-in-a-lifetime incident. The Bluabot team yells in harmony, "Get the spare hook, get the spare hook!"

Based on the 2004 Robot Rules, YOU MAKE THE CALL!

[Kevin Sevcik]

So to start us off, the most relevant rule is obviously this section of R09:

During the six week period following Kickoff: You may fabricate spare parts for replacement purposes of items on your robot as long as they are exact replacements for parts on the robot you shipped to the event. They must be brought to the event in a completely disassembled state as individual components (no bolt-on assemblies).

That being said, I think the spare hook would be legal. I'd have to say that welding is still under the category of fabrication as opposed to assembly, since it can't be reasonably undone. Atleast not without a dremel or grinder. So a welded object is incapable of being disassembled anymore than it already is. As a secondary definition, welding is also making definite chemical and physical changes to the part that are distinctly lacking in, say, screwing in a bolt.

[Jeremy Roberts]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

So to start us off, the most relevant rule is obviously this section of R09:



That being said, I think the spare hook would be legal. I'd have to say that welding is still under the category of fabrication as opposed to assembly, since it can't be reasonably undone. Atleast not without a dremel or grinder. So a welded object is incapable of being disassembled anymore than it already is. As a secondary definition, welding is also making definite chemical and physical changes to the part that are distinctly lacking in, say, screwing in a bolt.

I would agree if the welding was done during the six weeks, however it was done after the six weeks to finish assembly of the hook. If the team had brought the four pieces to competition and had them welded on site this would have been legal. I believe that in the situation outline the part would not be a legal spare for use at the competition.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Roberts

I would agree if the welding was done during the six weeks, however it was done after the six weeks to finish assembly of the hook. If the team had brought the four pieces to competition and had them welded on site this would have been legal. I believe that in the situation outline the part would not be a legal spare for use at the competition.

Well.... I'm saying that welding isn't assembly, welding is fabrication. You're allowed to fabricate outside of the 6 weeks, as long as it's an exact duplicate of the original component. I think the fundamental issue is whether welding is assembly or fabrication, and I contend that welding is fabrication. The hook would be legal if you cast it out of steel, because it's one inseperable piece. Welding is the same, as it's an irreverisble process that results in one inseperable piece. If the hook needed to be welded and then required further machining after the welding, this would clearly be a part of the fabrication process.

[tkwetzel]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

So to start us off, the most relevant rule is obviously this section of R09:

That being said, I think the spare hook would be legal. I'd have to say that welding is still under the category of fabrication as opposed to assembly, since it can't be reasonably undone. Atleast not without a dremel or grinder. So a welded object is incapable of being disassembled anymore than it already is. As a secondary definition, welding is also making definite chemical and physical changes to the part that are distinctly lacking in, say, screwing in a bolt.

That rule states the "during the six week period following kickoff" you can make spare parts. That six weeks is the build season, so if they fabricated it after shipping the robot, it would be illegal.

[Jack Jones]

Originally Posted by Natchez

You Make The Call (YMTC) is a series of situations where you can be the ref and make the call.

...Bluateam completes all of the Bluabot duplicate pieces, ships their robot, ...
A week after ship, Bluateam comes together to put their practice 'bot together. The final step of assembly is completed by welding the four pieces of the hook and putting it on their practice 'bot. "

If the duplicate hook was welded, then use it - if not, then weld it. Otherwise, go without it and stink up the place.
The practice hook was sullied (welded) after the six week period and isn't legal.

Said it before, will say it again. Assinine rules like the spare parts rule will end up being the death of FIRST. How many sponsors want spend that kind of money only to end up looking foolishly defective. Why not just close the pits and bop till you drop - last bot running wins.

[Jeff Waegelin]

I say it's illegal. Welding it after kickoff counts as fabrication after the six-week period. If they'd welded it before ship day, I would say it's a legal part. Since it wasn't, it is therefore illegal.

[Kevin Sevcik]

That rule states the "during the six week period following kickoff" you can make spare parts. That six weeks is the build season, so if they fabricated it after shipping the robot, it would be illegal.

Wow. I keep missing that and flashing back to when you could do some sorts of minimal construction after ship date. Sorry. Though in that case, the admonition against bolt on assemblies makes no sense whatsoever. If you've built the spare assembly and assembled it during the 6 weeks and ship it with your robot.... well I have no idea why you couldn't have it pre-assembled if you've gone to the trouble of designing a modular replacable spare system on your robot.

Not that that's debatable if that's the rule and all. There's a goodly number of rather odd rules in there.