Official 2005 Clue Thread

[kmcclary]

I do believe:

1) We'll definitely have IR beacons, very possibly moving this year.

2) Auto mode will exist, and be very important.

3) There will be an end of round ritual to perform, or position to be in for more points.

4) The number of teams/regional and the total regional time is similar to last year. Therefore, the time/round probably CAN'T increase, unless they increase the number of robots "processed" per round, or reduce total rounds played per team, which would cause complaints (especially considering the cost increase).

5) Similarly, they can't REDUCE the number of robots processed per round from four, without potentially causing timing problems. SO... I predict we'll still see alliances of some kind. If the "four is not enough" clue is valid, I assume this hint implies we'll probably have SIX robots on the field, in either a 3 vs 3 situation on a nice simple rectangular field, or 2 vs 2 vs 2 on a hexagonal field.

6) Note that one variable that is NOT constrained and MAY change is the ratio of Auto to Manual time! THAT could be interesting!

7) Could the "Pi between you and me" have something to do with the HP's role??? How about the HP wearing funny glasses and ADVISING the drivers about the location of an IR beacon that is not visible to them???

8) A hexagonal field is possible with decent viewing. Viewing isn't a problem if the third team is directly opposite the viewing side.

9) In addition to hinting at the number three, *I* interpret all of the triple play references could POSSIBLY mean that some ritual involving dashing between locations may be involved.

10) The LED Robot Active Blinkers issued last year are simply Blue and Red LED drivers, with ONLY two signal lines. If you drive BOTH at the same time, you generate a crude "purple". Therefore, there MAY be a three single or alliance situation given the 2004 IFI hardware, but no more than that. All may change though if they issue a new RAB, revert to the Gumball, or change the Robot Controller, but I can't imagine IFI would redesign the RC again so soon if they didn't have to, and though the RABs were not very noticeable, I'm guessing they'll use it again as people complained about the gumballs a lot. If *I* were at IFI, I'd want to milk the 2004 RC for at least a few more years to recover the R&D costs on it!

11) Carpeting comes in 12 foot wide rolls. Therefore, the EASIEST field dimensions to implement (without trimming) is a rectangular one, with width roughly equal to 12*N, by any length. 24' x N' across has held true for the last several seasons. If a hexagonal field IS used, I predict the size will be a multiple of 12' across between opposite flat sides.

Bottom line prediction:

Given the current IFI and field hardware, I guess the SIMPLEST interpretation is a 3 vs 3 alliance game, on a standard 24' (or 36'?) wide rectangular field, or a hex as spec'd in (11). Auto Mode will be important, moving IR beacons may be there, something weird or missing will be the center of the field, running BETWEEN places will be required, and some kind of ritual or position must be performed at the end for more points, as before.

BTW... What HASN'T happened yet but IMHO would be COOL, would be to have an alliance with one or more of the robots predesignated as having to do something DIFFERENT than the other(s) so that handoffs, etc. between robots may be REQUIRED. Designating who does what tasks may be done by the alliances. If an alliance robot fails, one robot may do more tasks.

However, I see nothing other than the fact that John and George were "unusual" to hint at distinct tasking this year. <darn>

General Notes:
To Kit - George Burns the comedian/actor lived to be 100 years old, not 110.
To Swampdude - Why do you say we're getting less motors? Did you hear something? Please tell!

- Keith Mc.

[Michael Hill]

WHAT IF....It were a hexagonal field with 2 alliances (3 teams each)...using baseballs as field objects and there is a circular barrier or goal in the middle? One alliance being the red alliance and the other blue (red+blue=amethyst). Just a thought...

[phrontist]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ivey

I'm just going to throw out what went through my mind reading everything...

Amethyst colored glasses, are a rose/purpleish color. Now while yes John Lennen wore the rose colored glasses, what about Jimi Hendrix. Purple Haze... Hendrix was born in 1942 and died in 1970, and that is 28 years, but he died at 27, let's not look at that. 2 more years he would have been 30, following in our "3" pattern. For the past 2 years there has been autonomous operation in FIRST, and it was for 15 seconds. 2+28=30, so maybe 30 seconds of auton. That was just off the wall and completely random...

Next, both Burns and Nuen played at one point for the Red Stockings. On a technicallity... In the 1870s and 1880s the Boston Braves were called the Boston Red Stockings, but not as the Sox we know today. Burns played in 1928 and 29, and Nuen played in 30 and 31. Now the Boston Braves team was formed in 1871 as a National Association club, and in 1876 they joined the National League. The Boston Braves had many nicknames, prior to 1912 when they were offocially titeled the Boston Braves, they were called the Boston Red Stockings. They were in Boston as the Boston Braves from 1912 to 1952, then off to Milwaukee from 53 to 65, then on to Atlanta, where our Championship game is held. Right now the Atlanta Braves are the oldest continuosly operating sports franchise in North America, at 133 years. There is the number 3 again, and they moved to Atl in 53. In 1935 Babe Ruth wanted to become the Manager but it was given to Bob Quinn. The Braves have won 15 division championships, 21 pennant titles, and only 3 World Serries Championships, but have been in the world serries for the past 13 years. And if memory serves correct there are 3 "Braves" farm teams, yes I know there are more farm teams than 3 that the Atl. Braves use but I know of only 3 that carry the title of Braves. A lot of 3 in there... This is my over-justification of the possible importance of the number 3. And I'm an over the top braves fan...

Now between Pi and me and you. We usually think of Pi as just 3.14, let's just look at the digits 314. Now let's look at Burns and Nuen, let's look really closely. They both played on a Boston based team. The Boston Braves are National League, the Boston Red Sox are American League. 2 teams different divisions, same town... Now a really close look at 314. I might be going for a strech, but this is the big thing in common between Pi, me and you. When Neun was on the Braves 31' that was his last year for playing for the Braves. One of his team mates was Earl Sheely. Sheely had been in the Majors for 9 years, and this was his final year. Now to Burns and Pi. Burns played for the Boston Red Sox in for his second and final year in Boston in 1930, one of his team mates was Mike Menosky. This was Menosky's 9th and final year of playing in the majors. So we come to Earl Sheely and Mike Menosky, and what the devil do they have in common with Pi??? Both in their final year of playing in the majors, both had a slugging average of .314, the same numerals as in what we shorten Pi to. Now just to throw in the formula for slugging average... In baseball statistics, slugging percentage (SLG) is a measure of the power of a hitter. It is calculated as total bases divided by at bats. Total bases can be calculated from commonly used baseball statistics by using the formula TB = 1B + (2*2B) + (3*3B) + (4*HR).

The thing about purple haze is just to prove a point, I don't think the Beatles are really all important this year, or I could be totally wrong. 3 is an important number, and we shouldn't shorten Pi to just 3. Pi and 3 are seperate but both important to the play of this year, and somehow we will have a "Slugging Average" this year, and something about 2 teams in the same city in different divisions of some sort... Take what you want, I just looked a little closer.

Ivey

Wait though, there are a lot of reason's it's realted to the beatles!

• The Rose Glasses - Lennon had them
• The names - John and George!
• George Burns - Comedian, whose only "acting" role ever was in Sgt. Pepper Movie
• Dave Likes Rock n' Roll

[Dested]

Has anyone noticed that it should be "Pi, you and I"?

[phrontist]

Originally Posted by Dested

Has anyone noticed that it should be "Pi, you and I"?

More evidence that the PYraMid acronym is deliberate!

[Jaine Perotti]

Originally Posted by Dested

Has anyone noticed that it should be "Pi, you and I"?

I think its to keep the rhyme scheme:

Look closely and you will see
Something between Pi, You and Me."

'See' and 'me' rhyme.

I dont know if it has anything to do with the game clue however.

[Mr. Ivey]

My grammar skills aren't that great but shouldn't it be "Pi you and me"??? And something tells me purple, go with purple, go with Hendrix. Something there, something in Purple Haze, and baseball. I don't know why, I love the Beatles I have original copies of the Srg. Pepper's Lonely Heart Band and so many others, but something just doesn't "click" with it to me. I feel that baseball, and Mike Menosky has something to do with it, he went to Indiana University of Pennsylvania, and from tracking the .314 SLG he was the only one of the 4 baseball players that I mentioned that went to college... I don't know but it seems as if baseball plays a more important role than most of us here are thinking.
Ivey

George Burns the comedian had another real acting role in 1939, in the movie Honolulu, he played Joe Duffy.

[Jeff K.]

Originally Posted by Steve W

PI is the 16 th letter of the Greek Alphabet. The following is from a math site:

pi PI (PIE) The lower-case Pi is universally used to represent that number which is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. The upper-case Pi is used as the “product” symbol.

16 sided field...now dats crazy.

Originally Posted by M. Krass

While I also can't imagine FIRST abandoning alliances altogether, it may be worth noting that John Neun and George Burns are notable in baseball for having performed unassisted triple plays.

Maybe we might lose the alliances this year...or maybe you have alliances of three teams and only 1 robot is on the field at a time, but the pyramid idea is just as crazy as my 16 sided field idea too, if they were going for pyramid, how would you make it 3d? would you have to have something that can also climb up the side of it and there's something at the top of it all that you have to reach, and maybe in your alliances, each robot has to work together to reach the top, and maybe the field is an upside down V to look like a mountain.

Originally Posted by MisterX

I remembered hearing a thread a bit back about a kid hearing Dave Lavery saying something he saw at the Science Museum of Virginia reminded him of somethign from next years game and so I searched their website and during march of 2004 which is when they had the VCU regional there was an exhibit on CRYSTALS! specifically noting HEXAGON shaped...

So maybe we might not do pyramid field, but hexagon field and just one robot in the field at a time from the 3-robot alliance.


Then again...I might totally be off, so ya

[Jeff K.]

Originally Posted by Michael Hill

WHAT IF....It were a hexagonal field with 2 alliances (3 teams each)...using baseballs as field objects and there is a circular barrier or goal in the middle? One alliance being the red alliance and the other blue (red+blue=amethyst). Just a thought...

What if your robot has to pick up the baseballs and collect it all in the middle and the number of balls your robot has has to be between 5 and 100 in order to win and the number that is closest to the average, 52.5, or 53, will get higher points.

Then again, we might all be goin totally off course on this clue and it might be as simple as the amethyst colored field being just a hexagon, alliances of 3 teams each, and your robot has to pick up a pie and place it between you and someone else.

[tkwetzel]

After about page 8 or 9, I ran out of time for this thread (have other things to do)...but I do have an idea that I didn't see in the posts I read:
What if a robot plays an unassisted triple play somehow in the game (something that the robot does without his alliance partner) and when it does, that team gets the red+blue score.

Edit: I would also like to point out a similarity between John and George: They were both first (FIRST?) baseman

[Conor Ryan]

Its something with a Golden Mean, that would explain the Pi, you and me

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by phrontist

• George Burns - Comedian, whose only "acting" role ever was in Sgt. Pepper Movie

Sorry.. but you are wrong!

http://imdb.com/name/nm0122675/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj 0wfHE9R2VvcmdlIEJ1cm5zfGh0bWw9MXxubT1vbg__;fc=1;ft =20;fm=1

He was an actor in many movies. Sgt. Pepper Movie was not his only "acting" role as you put it.

In fact, in a memorable role, he played God in the "Oh God" movies.

[phrontist]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

[/list]Sorry.. but you are wrong!

http://imdb.com/name/nm0122675/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj 0wfHE9R2VvcmdlIEJ1cm5zfGh0bWw9MXxubT1vbg__;fc=1;ft =20;fm=1

He was an actor in many movies. Sgt. Pepper Movie was not his only "acting" role as you put it.

In fact, in a memorable role, he played God in the "Oh God" movies.

Hmmm... I'm sorry, I meant first acting role. Not only. This is based on a quote by him found on wikipedia.

[Philip W.]

Originally Posted by Dested

Has anyone noticed that it should be "Pi, you and I"?

Here we go, quick grammar lesson. It only has to be "you and I" when a verb follows, or has this group of people doing something. For example, it can't be "you and me went to the store" because "me went" isn't grammatically correct. Now, because this John and George aren't doing something, it's okay. I hope you guys understand, because I'm too lazy to explain better.

[kmcclary]

Another thing to think about is that Amethyst lenses are often used to enhance color discrimination in optical systems.

This COULD imply either:

- The Human Player has the role of wearing glasses to "see something" the driver's can't, and try to ADVISE them (now wouldn't THAT be cool?? ...especially if the thing they see is CHANGING during the round...);

- or something like a color sensor may be included in the KOP to discriminate
between things during Auto Mode.

IMHO, either one would be a neat innovation.

- Keith McClary