Poll: Role of Political Advertisement on ChiefDelphi

[Bill Gold]

I (obviously) think that politically oriented conversations should be allowed to remain on these forums.

Like I said before in a different thread…

“Let it go. It's chit-chat. If we can talk about unimportant stuff like Foreign Music, iPods, Facebook.com, modding XBOX cases, The Sims, and all sorts of other threads in Chit-Chat, then we should be able to talk politics without people telling us “this isn’t the place to be talking about it.” Politics actually has an impact on our lives and how we’re going to be living for the rest of our lives.”

I can think of many other reasons why politically oriented conversations should be allowed on these forums, but since I haven’t seen a legitimate argument against it, I’ll refrain from sharing them for now.

I also feel that anyone who starts a thread asking for peoples’ opinions on completely subjective matters should post their own, too. So keeping with that belief, how do you feel about this SilverStar?

-Bill

[David Kelly]

Originally Posted by Bill Gold

I (obviously) think that politically oriented conversations should be allowed to remain on these forums.

Like I said before in a different thread…

“Let it go. It's chit-chat. If we can talk about unimportant stuff like Foreign Music, iPods, Facebook.com, modding XBOX cases, The Sims, and all sorts of other threads in Chit-Chat, then we should be able to talk politics without people telling us “this isn’t the place to be talking about it.” Politics actually has an impact on our lives and how we’re going to be living for the rest of our lives.”

I can think of many other reasons why politically oriented conversations should be allowed on these forums, but since I haven’t seen a legitimate argument against it, I’ll refrain from sharing them for now.

I also feel that anyone who starts a thread asking for peoples’ opinions on completely subjective matters should post their own, too. So keeping with that belief, how do you feel about this SilverStar?

-Bill

You hit it right on, Bill. (How often do we ever agree on something?? ) Politics is embedded into just about every aspect of our lives. I think it will make us all better people for expressing our ideas and thoughts and hear those of others. Hey, perhaps we can learn something from each other and become better and more complete as human beings. But there is a certain extent to which we can have political discussions because no matter what kind of disclaimer somebody puts, they are representing their team, FIRST, Pontiac Central HS, Delphi and all other sponsors or associations with FIRST.

Game on

[Bill Gold]

Originally Posted by David Kelly

You hit it right on, Bill. (How often do we ever agree on something?? ) Politics is embedded into just about every aspect of our lives. I think it will make us all better people for expressing our ideas and thoughts and hear those of others. Hey, perhaps we can learn something from each other and become better and more complete as human beings. But there is a certain extent to which we can have political discussions because no matter what kind of disclaimer somebody puts, they are representing their team, FIRST, Pontiac Central HS, Delphi and all other sponsors or associations with FIRST.

Game on

See everyone? I (a liberal) can get along with and agree with David (a conservative) on things. It really is possible.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by David Kelly

You hit it right on, Bill. (How often do we ever agree on something?? ) Politics is embedded into just about every aspect of our lives. I think it will make us all better people for expressing our ideas and thoughts and hear those of others. Hey, perhaps we can learn something from each other and become better and more complete as human beings. But there is a certain extent to which we can have political discussions because no matter what kind of disclaimer somebody puts, they are representing their team, FIRST, Pontiac Central HS, Delphi and all other sponsors or associations with FIRST.

Game on

Somewhere along the line the individual should be divided from the team because I garuntee you not every X-Cat (mentor) voted for John Kerry and not every X-Cat voted for George W. Bush. I mean everybody remebers that obnoxous mystery man SilenceNoMore from earlier in the year and he was a class A jerk who hid like a coward behind an alias but whatever his team was they shouldn't be held soley accountable for his inane actions. We may be part of a team but we also individuals. We only make robots we aren't robots ourselves.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I think political discussions have a place here as long as they don't turn into flame wars. I'm also unsure that people necessarily represent their team in everything they do and say on CD. I think it could be said that the way they express themselves represents their team, etc. But I find it silly to say their opinion on topics represents the team, as everyone is an individual and all.

At any rate, I think moderators should just check up on the threads and make sure they don't get out of hand. I feel it necessary to comment on the fact that in the above mentioned thread, the first reply was from a mod and seemed rather inflammatory given the nature of the original post. And then the same mod closed the thread before any other discussion could really happen. But that's just me.

[David Kelly]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I think political discussions have a place here as long as they don't turn into flame wars. I'm also unsure that people necessarily represent their team in everything they do and say on CD. I think it could be said that the way they express themselves represents their team, etc. But I find it silly to say their opinion on topics represents the team, as everyone is an individual and all.

At any rate, I think moderators should just check up on the threads and make sure they don't get out of hand. I feel it necessary to comment on the fact that in the above mentioned thread, the first reply was from a mod and seemed rather inflammatory given the nature of the original post. And then the same mod closed the thread before any other discussion could really happen. But that's just me.

Well, I think I mis-spoke on the comment in regards to representing a group. To a certain extent, people will associate a comment from somebody with a particular organization they may be a part of. We're not supposed to do that, but we're humans, and thats what humans do.


In regards to this 'mod' who posted and closed this thread, I will defend my position. I may be a moderator but I also have the right to comment on a subject or post just like everybody else. If I was going around and editing posts or deleting posts/ threads for something that I don't agree with, that would be a problem. I was asked by many people to close the thread via AIM and there were several people reported the post via the forums. With being the only moderator that was online at the time, as most are out of town on vacation or Christmas break, I felt it would be best to just close it then. There would be no since to continue to leave it open when the community is asking to close it. This is not the first time I have been accused of closing a thread that I participated in, and I doubt it will be the last. It may not seem like I'm being transparent to some of you folks, but I am being fair. If you don't like the way I do something, oh well. I'm not perfect.

I stand by my actions, and if you don't like it, oh well.

Originally Posted by Bill Gold

So keeping with that belief, how do you feel about this SilverStar?

Political discussion is fine - I have no problem with it. But, as I titled this thread, its advertisement that is the problem. The specific thread I mention had the original poster advertise a link for a political organization, and then another user (a moderator, at that) provide reasons why said organization was evil. Such advertisements do not discuss political beliefs, but are just another form of commercial advertisements. How would people like it if I started a thread advertising some company? Or if I replied to such a thread by explaining why the company is evil?

[Bill Gold]

Originally Posted by SilverStar

How would people like it if I started a thread advertising some company? Or if I replied to such a thread by explaining why the company is evil?

You mean like this?

No offense, Andy. I love your company, and I'll be plugging it out here the day before kickoff

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by Bill Gold

You mean like this?

No offense, Andy. I love your company, and I'll be plugging it out here the day before kickoff

This is a good point. What is spam and what is not spam? I think that if someone is bringing attention of something that FIRST teams may want to buy, then it is productive advertising. There is a fine line there, and I have seriously wondered where "crossing it" is.

As for the political stuff, I enjoy the discussions, as long as points of view are accepted and respected. We really do have a wide variety of backgrounds, spiritual views, and political influences here on the CD boards. Most of us, I assume, hang out with people who are "like us" in our daily lives. We either mingle with friends who are "like us", or we work with people who are "like us". I find that this FIRST community has opened my eyes to smart people who think differently than I do about issues. Even if they are wrong - - we can still get along here, build robots, and inspire each other along the way.

Andy B.

[MrToast]

<TwoCents>
Personally, I don't give a hoot what anyone thinks politically. I believe what I believe, I know what I know, and I make my decisions based on what I believe and what I know. I don't like it when I express my opinion on (for example) politics and somebody responds "You're wrong, idiot." That really gets me. First, no one here knows anything about me, or the experiences I've had that have led me to my current beliefs. For someone to blatantly attack my personal beliefs with no foundation for how I came to arrive at those beliefs is wrong.

OK, I'm reading this and I think I'm rambling. So I'll get to my point.

I don't think CD should allow political threads. This is a robotics site. Not a political opinion site. HOWEVER, I do realize that people are guaranteed by the First Amendment to say whatever they want to say. Therefore, I think a separate "politics" subforum should be created, with an option in the User preferences to hide/show it. That way the people who want to see and participate in political threads can do so, and the people who don't particularly care for them (like myself), can easily ignore them (because they wouldn't be visible).

However, this would probably take a lot of work on Brandon's part to implement.

</TwoCents>

Dave

Originally Posted by MrToast

<TwoCents>
HOWEVER, I do realize that people are guaranteed by the First Amendment to say whatever they want to say. Therefore, I think a separate "politics" subforum should be created, with an option in the User preferences to hide/show it.
</TwoCents>
Dave

The First Amendment does not say that websites have to let you say whatever you want to say on their websites (as in, their property). But hey, that's bordering on a political argument...

[Max Lobovsky]

There have been numerous threads in the technical threads "advertising some company". Take the DeWalt drill transmissions. Of course, you will say, "but that is useful for other readers". Well, so are interest groups. Many people may find them useful while others may not find them useful. Keep in mind it was in the Chit-Chat forum so it doesn't have to useful and FIRST-related.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by SilverStar

How would people like it if I started a thread advertising some company? Or if I replied to such a thread by explaining why the company is evil?

All Microsoft bashing must stop immediately

[Steve Howland]

I am one of those who voted for no political advertisement threads.

ChiefDelphi is a very valuable and important resource and gathering place for tons of FIRST participants from practically every team. Nobody should have to risk their privileges of participating because of a heated political debate.

Many times people at my school have argued endlessly about elections and political parties, and the only results are hurt feelings and added frustration. Although our moderators are very good and I do not find that political debates get out of control when a close eye is kept on them, if one erupted when no moderator was there to stop it somebody could lose their CD account (or all credibility on the site) due to rash behavior on a topic for which these forums were not fully intended.

There are plenty of places to discuss politics, such as in chatrooms or other forums, however ChiefDelphi is just too terrific and precious a place for people to lose. If we could all be gracious and professional all the time, we could have these threads. Unfortunately that is not the case and it would be a shame if anybody was unable to be a part of this community just because of a different political belief that they failed to express in an acceptable way.

It was mentioned earlier that political discussion and attacks are hard to distinguish from one another sometimes, and to avoid attacks I believe it is necessary that political stances not be taken on a robotics-based site. We all are entitled to our opinions, I am just afraid that they will breed anger or cause the loss of use of these forums to even a single person.

-Steve Howland