Open Brainstorming Thread

[Nick Mac]

I really like the way this years game has been designed because there are no single objectives that are worth huge points. There is definitely going to be a lot more strategy needed because its not like a team is just going to be after a pole or a hill so they can get big points. teams are really goign to have to work this year, and do more counting than usual in order to get the win. I love it!

[geeknerd99]

We did some calculations right after we figured out the rules, and in fact, the best way to win is NOT to cap everything.

I'm a noob this year, so I'm not exactly too sure what one of the vets was talking about, but he was saying something about tournament rankings being more than win/loss ratios. It seems that when 2 win/loss ratios are the same, they will resort to the opponent's scores to see who did better. Obviously, 208127197923 to 2 is better than 151 to 150.

So, that leaves two options (both of which are pushed to the extreme). You can completely trounce the other alliance, capping EVERY SINGLE TETRA and getting all the bots in the end zone, resulting in a 210-0 win. Looks great, but I don't think that counts as much in ranking as the following procedure:

Both teams cap all 40 tetras and end up behind the line, but the arrangement of rows ends up as something like | | |.

This results in something along the lines of a 150-140 victory for red. Still a win, but also ranks you better.

[RbtGal1351]

Originally Posted by Nick Mac

I really like the way this years game has been designed because there are no single objectives that are worth huge points. There is definitely going to be a lot more strategy needed because its not like a team is just going to be after a pole or a hill so they can get big points. teams are really goign to have to work this year, and do more counting than usual in order to get the win. I love it!

DITTO!
its one of the first things we realized about the game this year

we also realized how some of the robots from last year would work really well. last year we had a 10 ft. extending ladder w/ hooks on the end of it, and one of our guys goes, hey, rebuild last years bot, turn the hooks around, and we've got our bot! some of other teams would be good too, like the ones who lifted the 2x balls.

good luck to all and have fun!
~Stephanie, and the rest of team 1351

[Cyberguy34000]

Isn't there something in the rules about reusing old robots?

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Cyberguy34000

Isn't there something in the rules about reusing old robots?

Never heard anything like that but if you retool and repackage the robot how would anyone know? I was told the X-Cats used to cannibalize their old robots for parts but we like to keep the old robots intact if for nothing else as a learning tool (and it's really cool when you break them out for show). Over the years you can learn alot.

[Nick Mac]

A lot of teams have been known to use their robots for parts. Why not? If something was manufactured and done well why not copy it or even use it...or if you just plain didn't have the parts because you can't afford to be buying more stuff, then you definitely should be able to use it. We keep our robots for the most part intact. We've got several on display and last years in our school. But teams should be able to do what they want with them. That's just what i think.

[Barry Bonzack]

If it is decided within the final moments of the game that it is more important for your alliance to have a robot out capping instead of being behind the line, send one robot out to assist the capper, and one to go to the other alliance's line and block one of their bot from getting behind their line to keep them from getting the bonus as well.

[Ikeyballz]

The game this year seems interesting, but I think there might be a problem...Since the only way to score any points worth scoring seems to be stacking, I think we will see a lot of stacker bots.

I'm kinda half expecting a team to build a robot that pretty much builds a wall over the middle 3 goals.

I think the scores this year for qualifying will probably fall between 40-60 Pt's. Since theres so much robots on the field, I also expect lots of collisions .

g00d luck to all!!

[EddieMcD]

Two words make this year exciting: Game Theory.

First, keep in mind that tetras ON a goal can't be removed. That brings these three factors into play:

1) Ownership of a goal can change with one cap of a tetra. Are you going to wait until the end so your tetra doesn't get capped? Will you go for a certain goal thinking that the opponent is going for another goal? Do you fast-break and try to cap all the goals first and play defense?

2) Tic-tac-toe is as much a chess game as, well, chess. This also takes into account what you and your opponent are doing, multiplied by three. Where are you going to be on the board in relation to them?

3) An opponent can remove tetras from IN a goal just as easily as you can. If that's your only purpose as a push bot, great; you've got a pretty decent niche. Just remember that as your removing tetras from IN the goals, your opponent can do the same.

Game theory part deux: autonomous mode (yay, 15 second longer match times). I have no clue how many in the field will be able to succesfully nab the vision tetras, but keep in mind that both you and your opponent could be capable of it. That bonus one tetra could be the difference in completing a tic-tac-toe for a bonus 10 points and winning by a couple, or letting your opponent get his bonus tetra and then cap your goal for the win. But fear not: for those non-vision tetra people, you can just knock the hanging tetras down for an extra point. Which again can be enough for a win, though keep in mind your opponent is probably doing the same.

The entire game may come down to which coach knows where to place his last-second tetra. Of course, it may be a moot point if all of the opposing alliance is in the end-zone, though maybe your last tetra TAKES a tic-tac-toe from the opponent. This brings up another factor: when to move for the end-zone. If you place your last tetra and move to the end zone, the opponent can just as easily cap over your tetra (or cap another strategic goal) and ruin your day when you bolt. But again, you can do the same.

I figure this game isn't about which robot is best; it's just like poker (it's not a game of cards, it's a game of people). Either way, this game is quite spectator friendly, even without knowing the point values. And I've only scratched the surface of the game theory on this.

[DrShadowSML]

One cool strategy is to go all out force. DELTA FORMATION GO!

[looneylin]

Wait, can you hold more than one tetra at a time? Like stack a cpl tetras then load it on the goal. I don't remember if it specified in the manual

[Nick Mac]

I was just thinking about that an hour ago. While i didn't see it in the rules, i'd tend to think that it would be ok to stack then restack. Unless of course there is a safety issue there...like if FIRST is worried the stack would fall and possibly damage something while you went to put it on the goal. Can anyone clarify?

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by looneylin

Wait, can you hold more than one tetra at a time? Like stack a cpl tetras then load it on the goal. I don't remember if it specified in the manual

Our team has been discussing this, and I have done a lot of looking up of my own...I have found, there is nothing saying you cannot hold more than one tetra at a time. You can stack them, and then put them on top of the goal no problems. There are some tricky rules with the tetras, you just gotta look for what you're looking for. (sorry for the yogi-ism)

[Ready_Mix]

I think we are allowed to have more than one tetra ata time, but must leave and re-enter the loading zone every time to get them. (Unless you are using the automatic loaders, in which case your robot will have to stack them itself while it gets the tetras.)

At least thats the impression I got.

[IA-Howitzer]

Yes, we are allowed to have more then one tetra at a time and can only load them one at a time. To load or get multiple tetras, your have to go in and out of the loading zone and then you can load the 2nd. For each following tetra you still have to go in and out of the loading zone (at least for the automatic loading zone) and take one at a time... etc...
If your robot is strong enough, you can carry as many as you can get and stack as many as you want at a time. You cannot unstack or hold on to the stationary tetras. If you have any other questions about the rules, I read most of them so just AIM me.
Andrew

AIM: TheMightyMarine