Pushing robots out of loading zone

[jgannon]

<S05> A ROBOT may not impede the placement of TETRAS on the loading structures or the hand-off of a TETRA by a HUMAN PLAYER to a ROBOT. No HUMAN PLAYER or field attendant may be accosted by a ROBOT while placing TETRAS. Violations will result immediate disabling of the offending ROBOT, and disqualification of the alliance.

Based on this rule, is it legal to push a robot out of a manual loading zone while the human player is approaching, thus making the handoff illegal? (I can't find anything that would make such a maneuver illegal at an automatic loading zone.)

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by jgannon

Based on this rule, is it legal to push a robot out of a manual loading zone while the human player is approaching, thus making the handoff illegal? (I can't find anything that would make such a maneuver illegal at an automatic loading zone.)

No,you cannot, based on rule G15, no interfering... it's stated in a few other threads here too.
Once a robot is in the loading zone, you cannot touch or interfere with a robot retrieving a tetra.

[Cory]

This rule is especially relevant while in human loading zones. Safety is paramount in everything FIRST does. Imagine how dangerous it would be if a robot could shove your robot, as your human player is reaching onto the field right in front of it.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Cory

This rule is especially relevant while in human loading zones. Safety is paramount in everything FIRST does. Imagine how dangerous it would be if a robot could shove your robot, as your human player is reaching onto the field right in front of it.

I wonder if FIRST would go as far as to disable the attacking robot.

[Lil' Lavery]

Both rules <SO5> and rule <G15> clearly state against this. Wouldn't the human player walking over be part of the process of receiving a tetra?

[Bill Gold]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I wonder if FIRST would go as far as to disable the attacking robot.

It shouldn't be a surprise. FIRST has always been very vigilant when safety is breached.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I wonder if FIRST would go as far as to disable the attacking robot.

yes, <S05> states that not only will you be disabled, you will be DQed.

[jgannon]

*sigh* Completely missed G15. Yeah, that's pretty clear. I can understand the safety issue in the manual loading stations (hence why I wondered), but I would think that being able to push robots at the automatic loading stations, where there is not much of a safety issue, would be a good defensive strategy. I guess not.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

yes, <S05> states that not only will you be disabled, you will be DQed.

Yeah, it seems like you get DQ - 30pts if you interfere in the HP load side, but if you interfere on the auto load side, it's just a 30pt deduction.

I wonder how they will judge that, since it states a DQ for impeding the "trade-off between HP and robot"... so does that mean you might only get 30pt deduction if the HP didn't get there yet (not yet handing off tetra), or a DQ-30 no matter what, if you interfere at any time on the HP side?

I'd almost rather see the same penalty for both sides, for interference any time in load zone, being DQ - 30pts.... just for consistency sake. But at least it seems like the number and variance of penalties has been reduced this year.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by jgannon

*sigh* Completely missed G15. Yeah, that's pretty clear. I can understand the safety issue in the manual loading stations (hence why I wondered), but I would think that being able to push robots at the automatic loading stations, where there is not much of a safety issue, would be a good defensive strategy. I guess not.

There is a safety issue on the auto side because there are field attendants over there. If you want to block a robot, block them before they get to, or touch the loading zone.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by AmyPrib

Yeah, it seems like you get DQ - 30pts if you interfere in the HP load side, but if you interfere on the auto load side, it's just a 30pt deduction.

I wonder how they will judge that, since it states a DQ for impeding the "trade-off between HP and robot"... so does that mean you might only get 30pt deduction if the HP didn't get there yet (not yet handing off tetra), or a DQ-30 no matter what, if you interfere at any time on the HP side?

I'd almost rather see the same penalty for both sides, for interference any time in load zone, being DQ - 30pts.... just for consistency sake. But at least it seems like the number and variance of penalties has been reduced this year.

In many a situation, 30pts isnt much better than a DQ anyway....
but still, i wouldnt run the risk anyway, even if your up by more than 30 and they might steal a row and somehow come out with a win or something, to risky.
Also, if it hits, or comes dangerously close to hitting, the field attendant, DQ as well, as they might not be completly out of the area by the time the robot goes for the next tetra.

[meaubry]

Do you know if the 30 pts penalty is an alliance or team penalty? If its an alliance penalty, I suppose the partners won't be all that happy with the team that reduced the alliance score and also shot their chances of getting the bonus for having all 3 teams back home (I am assuming the bad robot will be turned off immediately and not have time to drive too far) That should eliminate alot of interaction around that area of the field. I will also assume that the penalty will still apply even after the human player gets back on the pressure pad - this could be a good place to stay until the coast is clear!

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by meaubry

Do you know if the 30 pts penalty is an alliance or team penalty?

I don't know how they would apply a 30pt penalty to just one team, since the score is an alliance score. So the 30pts would come off that alliance's score. If someone gets a DQ, I believe it's a DQ for the alliance.

[Aignam]

If in having a pushing match or playing defense, one or both of the robots happen to cross over or accidentally touch the loading zones, but there is obviously no intent to use the loading zone, is it still considered illegal?

[Deltafrog]

You are allowed to stop them from getting into the loading zone in the first place though!