RE:Removing Tetras

[n0cturnalxb]

Could you take tetras from the opposing team's automatic loading zone and just keep placing them outside the field, preventing them from getting any tetras at their auto loading zone?

[Aignam]

Originally Posted by n0cturnalxb

Could you take tetras from the opposing team's automatic loading zone and just keep placing them outside the field, preventing them from getting any tetras at their auto loading zone?

If your arm goes out of bounds with the Tetra touching the ground but not the arm, I'm going to assume that the Tetra becomes an extension of the robot and thus you are disabled. Since you cannot use the Tetras as projectiles, and may only drop them on top of goals, I'm going to assume that you cannot.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by n0cturnalxb

Could you take tetras from the opposing team's automatic loading zone and just keep placing them outside the field, preventing them from getting any tetras at their auto loading zone?

Why would you want to do that? Those tetras that you put outside the field would come back into play eventually. And they have a second auto load zone they could use.

I haven't seen anything preventing you from taking tetras from their auto load zone, but any tetras outside will come back in.

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by Aignam

If your arm goes out of bounds with the Tetra touching the ground but not the arm, I'm going to assume that the Tetra becomes an extension of the robot and thus you are disabled. Since you cannot use the Tetras as projectiles, and may only drop them on top of goals, I'm going to assume that you cannot.

That is incorrect. You are not disabled if you touch outside the field, you are disabled if the referees determine that it is unsafe for any reason, or if you apply force to an out-of-bounds surface to get back.

Originally Posted by <S02>

If a ROBOT goes out-of-bounds (outside the playing field) to the point where it has to apply force to any out-of-bounds surface to rejoin play, its control system will be disabled and the ROBOT will be disabled for
the remainder of the match.

Wetzel

[n0cturnalxb]

Originally Posted by AmyPrib

Why would you want to do that? Those tetras that you put outside the field would come back into play eventually. And they have a second auto load zone they could use.

I haven't seen anything preventing you from taking tetras from their auto load zone, but any tetras outside will come back in.

Yeah, I know.. it was just a question I was just wondering if that would be legal... it doesn't stop them from getting tetras, but it limits them to at most 3 loading stations.

This year's game sure is going to be interesting, though

[gumbyrocks667]

u cant remove tetras on right but if there not properly fitted on u can take it off

[ahecht]

Here is an interesting scenerio. You place a tetra of your color on a goal, but keep your robot in contact with that tetra. The other alliance stacks their tetras on top of yours, and you lift up your tetra and dump theirs off. Is this descoring?

Well, according to the definition of STACKED, "A TETRA is not considered STACKED if it is touching a ROBOT of the same alliance." Therefore, your tetra isn't stacked. However, the definition also says "A TETRA is STACKED when it is placed on top of a GOAL or on top of another STACKED TETRA." Therefore, because your tetra isn't stacked, your opponant's tetras were never stacked, and therefore removing them is not descoring.

Likewise, if your teams tetra is below an opponant's tetra and your robot brushes past your tetra, you are making your tetra not stacked, which makes your opponant's tetra not stacked, which means you are descoring. Therefore, touching your tetra under an opponants tetra is descoring even if neither tetra ever moves.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by ahecht

Here is an interesting scenerio. You place a tetra of your color on a goal, but keep your robot in contact with that tetra. The other alliance stacks their tetras on top of yours, and you lift up your tetra and dump theirs off. Is this descoring?

Well, according to the definition of STACKED, "A TETRA is not considered STACKED if it is touching a ROBOT of the same alliance." Therefore, your tetra isn't stacked. However, the definition also says "A TETRA is STACKED when it is placed on top of a GOAL or on top of another STACKED TETRA." Therefore, because your tetra isn't stacked, your opponant's tetras were never stacked, and therefore removing them is not descoring.

Likewise, if your teams tetra is below an opponant's tetra and your robot brushes past your tetra, you are making your tetra not stacked, which makes your opponant's tetra not stacked, which means you are descoring. Therefore, touching your tetra under an opponants tetra is descoring even if neither tetra ever moves.

Good questions for Q/A.
I don't think they would allow that first part, because if I wanted to negate all the opponents points, or an ownage of a goal, I'd just have to go touch one of my tetras anywhere in that stack. Seems like a couple of these rules really circle around each other and end up not making sense when you really read into them.

I think that part about a tetra not being considered "stacked" if you're touching it, is in regard to getting the points at end of match for it. So just don't be touching any of your tetras at the end of the match.

Even though it's a rule, I don't like how you can't be touching your own tetra to get points if it's at the bottom of the stack. You're obviously not supporting it, and it will not fall off the goal if you were not touching it. But I guess it's just the rule... similar to last year with the 2x - you couldn't be touching it to consider it capped... but that was more understandable since the 2x balls were able to fall off easily... so if you were touching it in any way, that could be helping it to stay on the goal... Here my tetra may be under 8 other tetras, but it's not going anywhere! Oh well.
I'm sure we'll get clarification from FIRST.

[ahecht]

Originally Posted by AmyPrib

Good questions for Q/A.
I don't think they would allow that first part, because if I wanted to negate all the opponents points, or an ownage of a goal, I'd just have to go touch one of my tetras anywhere in that stack.

Not quite. At least according to how I read the rules, if you touched one of your tetras, it would only make the tetras above yours not scoring. Plus, if you touched the tetra, that would be descoring, and your opponant would get ownership of the goal. However, if you never broke contact, it isn't descoring, and, as far as I can tell, a legal way to prevent your opponant from scoring any points on that goal.

I think we need a ruling from the rules committee if it is legal to remove opponents tetras from the FOP. IF uou could use your arm to lift a tetra that was on the field or in a goal, and then drop it (not throw) outside the field. I gues it wolud be perfectly legal to remove a tetra from a gola and place it so it was difficult for your opponent to put it back into play.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by ahecht

Not quite. At least according to how I read the rules, if you touched one of your tetras, it would only make the tetras above yours not scoring. Plus, if you touched the tetra, that would be descoring, and your opponant would get ownership of the goal. However, if you never broke contact, it isn't descoring, and, as far as I can tell, a legal way to prevent your opponant from scoring any points on that goal.

ID979...
Regarding the definition of "stacked": If a tetra, which is not at the top of a stack, is being touched (not supported) by an alliance robot, are all higher tetras (not touching the robot) from that same alliance discounted as well?

A: They would not count.

Definitely do not want to touch any of your tetras on the stack! I guess if you touch a tetra of yours on the top, the below ones would count, but if you're touching the very bottom one, you've just negated all your points above it.

But yeah, I don't know if they would just consider YOURS not counted, or if they would include the opponents. That would seem awfully unfair to your opponent... Hope we find out for sure... the Q/A question above specifically states for one alliance... not including opponents tetras...ID1098 in Q/A has asked this....

Further..
ID: 966 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/11/2005
Q: Rule G18 precludes robots from removing tetras from a goal. What happens if the tetra removed is a tetra owned by the same alliance that the robot which removed the tetra was on?

A: This is okay as long as you do not violate any other rule.

I am sorta surprised at this. The manual says clearly that you cannot remove a tetra that is stacked on top of the goal. So I'm not sure why it's ok for me to go remove tetras from a goal, even if they're my own... Hmm..