Q/A questions so far..

[AmyPrib]

I would like to note, as others have, PLEASE read all the Q/A questions before posting a question. Also, if you're reading this and you post Q/A, please read the manual and rules/strategies threads. Most questions regarding game play are already answered.

You'd probably rather wait for the official FIRST answer, but many questions are already answered on CD. So, trying to benefit you with quicker answers... There were also some good questions in there I hadn't though of either..

ID975 -- If a robot scores a vision tetra on a goal, the "bonus" tetras will be placed on the corner goals AFTER automode is over, earliest safe opportunity.. (from G10)

ID970 -- Human player can place a tetra anywhere on your robot, so long as he doesn't touch the robot. G13 clearly defines that (on, or in robot, or any mech to grab it)

ID974 -- Ownership of a goal based on tetras inside... only applied when no tetras are stacked on top... then it's based on highest tetra inside, or, if all at same height, whoever has the majority.. (see "owning a goal" definition of manual rules).

ID980-- The tetras will be divided "equally" between the HP and auto zones. They will also "try" to keep each side roughly equal in quantity, so that one side does not totally deplete and remain depleted.

ID966 -- You cannot remove tetras from the top of a goal if it's fully considered stacked. Period. There is a definition of what "precariously" positioned is, in which case you can take it off. I don't expect that too happen too often.

ID999 -- Haven't seen anything against rolling over the goal's base tubes (on floor) for various reasons... Seems perfectly legal. Except - you cannot extend into that 3d space at the beginning of match (G02).

ID1003 -- Designated vision tetra placement at start of match. There is a field layout drawing with dimensions and includes those particular 8 spots. In the manual under "Arena" then "Drawings" category - Field Layout.

ID1011 -- Both alliances can obtain the bonus for a vision tetra that is scored during the autonomous period <G10>. In automode, if redbot puts a vision tetra on center goal, red alliance gets 2 bonus red tetras. If bluebot puts a VT on the center goal, blue alliance gets 2 bonus blue tetras.

ID1010 -- A robot can score multiple tetras at the same moment. You can build a stack of tetras, and then cap the goal with that stack. No rule against it that I see. You cannot receive multiple tetras from a loading zone at one time.

ID 1025 -- Regarding <G13>: May a robot retrieve a tetra from the automated loading station without being in the automated loading zone? Question already asked in Q/A, asking to define parameters of loading zone. Also discussed on CD, interpreting rules implies you need to be touching some part of the floor triangle to be "in" the LZ.

ID1005 -- Can the robot back off once receiving a Tetra and immediately move forward and load another Tetra? Can a robot carry say 10 Tetras? Discussed thoroughly in these threads. Yes.


Good Q/A questions I'm not sure of yet (pulled from Q/A site)..
ID973 -- During autonomous period, will the referees be refilling the "automatic" loading platform, since the human players cannot reload the manual loading platform?
-- I think the answer would be yes, they'll refill them during automode, since G11 says "robots can get tetras from autozone any time during match. Robots can get tetras from the HP zone any time after automode". That would imply they'll try to keep the autozone refilled, so long as it's safe for them do so.

ID970 -- Regarding the definition of "stacked": If a tetra, which is not at the top of a stack, is being touched (not supported) by an alliance robot, are all higher tetras (not touching the robot) from that same alliance discounted as well?
-- I think it would be that any tetra your alliance is touching would be discounted, but only that tetra. In the definition of "stacked" in manual, a tetra is not considered stacked if it is touching a robot of the same alliance. Implies just that one tetra.
-- But, another Q, if you're touching the lowest one on the pile, you're most likely obviously not supporting it (since it would have i.e. 4 on top of it), so seems a little unfair to discount that tetra.... But that definition does say it would... But it doesn't say all higher tetras would be discounted..

ID977 -- Regarding <G14>: If the mechanism requires it, may a robot "stack" a currently held tetra on top of a loading-dock supported tetra in order to lift both off at once in a stack, provided the robot does not interfere with the attendant.
-- Beats me...


Any other thoughts on some of the questionable ones? (or any corrections to my thoughts)....

[Sam Lipscomb]

Originally Posted by AmyPrib

ID 1025 -- Regarding <G13>: May a robot retrieve a tetra from the automated loading station without being in the automated loading zone? Question already asked in Q/A, asking to define parameters of loading zone. Also discussed on CD, interpreting rules implies you need to be touching some part of the floor triangle to be "in" the LZ.

even if you have to be touching the floor triangle to be -in- the loading zone, do you have to be -in- the loading zone to take a tetra?

also, if a robot is over the yellow triangle, but because of its chassis design does not -touch- the yellow triangle, does that count as in the loading zone?

[sanddrag]

Has FIRST taken today off? If so I don't blame them, they deserve it, but there are a lot of Q/A questions to be answered. Any word on when the answers will come (like what to do about a missing Van Door if you didn't get one at all because it is not listed to order in the TIMS)? Also, in posting in the Q/A, please don't do so until the whole manual has been read. I saw lots of stuff in there I could have answered.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Any word on when the answers will come (like what to do about a missing Van Door if you didn't get one at all because it is not listed to order in the TIMS)?

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[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by innovativechic

even if you have to be touching the floor triangle to be -in- the loading zone, do you have to be -in- the loading zone to take a tetra?

also, if a robot is over the yellow triangle, but because of its chassis design does not -touch- the yellow triangle, does that count as in the loading zone?

The way I've seen it interpreted is that some part of your robot has to be touching the floor triangle to be considered "in" the loading zone....

[ten3brousone]

if a bot picked up a tetra from auto loading zone. then goes to the adjacent loading zone and puts that tetra it picked up earlier on the tetra which is still on loader, then pick both up, is that illegal?
(concenring out of field rules)

[Aignam]

Originally Posted by ten3brousone

if a bot picked up a tetra from auto loading zone. then goes to the adjacent loading zone and puts that tetra it picked up earlier on the tetra which is still on loader, then pick both up, is that illegal?
(concenring out of field rules)

Refer to ID977.

[ten3brousone]

Originally Posted by Aignam

Refer to ID977.

really really sorry, but i'm a newb this year and i looked through the pdf files on the 2005 games with a search on ID977, but i couldnt find anything in those files...

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by ten3brousone

really really sorry, but i'm a newb this year and i looked through the pdf files on the 2005 games with a search on ID977, but i couldnt find anything in those files...

That doesn't refer to a section in the manual, but rather a question in the FIRST Q/A system. http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/qa.htm

[ten3brousone]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

That doesn't refer to a section in the manual, but rather a question in the FIRST Q/A system. http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/qa.htm

ah i see, now i feel so stupid haha ^.^;; thanks, mmm when can i expect to see it answered? couple weeks, o rjust whenever htye have time to get to it, not trying to sound rude or anything

[Aignam]

Originally Posted by ten3brousone

ah i see, now i feel so stupid haha ^.^;; thanks, mmm when can i expect to see it answered? couple weeks, o rjust whenever htye have time to get to it, not trying to sound rude or anything

They haven't answered any yet---look for some answers in the next few days.

[Joe Ross]

The really easy ones have been answered now.

[Petey]

Originally Posted by AmyPrib

I would like to note, as others have, PLEASE read all the Q/A questions before posting a question. Also, if you're reading this and you post Q/A, please read the manual and rules/strategies threads. Most questions regarding game play are already answered.

You'd probably rather wait for the official FIRST answer, but many questions are already answered on CD. So, trying to benefit you with quicker answers... There were also some good questions in there I hadn't though of either..

ID975 -- If a robot scores a vision tetra on a goal, the "bonus" tetras will be placed on the corner goals AFTER automode is over, earliest safe opportunity.. (from G10)

[/b]

This doesn't answer the question asked. Before or after the hangers are dropped? In short, if the bonus goals are capped before the hangers are removed, the hangers will drop and will be scored. Will the score be invalidated? It is a 2 pt (or potentially more) swing.

ID974 -- Ownership of a goal based on tetras inside... only applied when no tetras are stacked on top... then it's based on highest tetra inside, or, if all at same height, whoever has the majority.. (see "owning a goal" definition of manual rules).

If there is no majority and no height differential...than what?

Doesn't answer the question.

ID980-- The tetras will be divided "equally" between the HP and auto zones. They will also "try" to keep each side roughly equal in quantity, so that one side does not totally deplete and remain depleted.

Interesting. I was wondering if we would start with a fixed number, or whether or not equalization would go on during the match.

Good Q/A questions I'm not sure of yet (pulled from Q/A site)..
ID973 -- During autonomous period, will the referees be refilling the "automatic" loading platform, since the human players cannot reload the manual loading platform?
-- I think the answer would be yes, they'll refill them during automode, since G11 says "robots can get tetras from autozone any time during match. Robots can get tetras from the HP zone any time after automode". That would imply they'll try to keep the autozone refilled, so long as it's safe for them do so.

That is my thought as well, but I wanted to clear it up.

ID970 -- Regarding the definition of "stacked": If a tetra, which is not at the top of a stack, is being touched (not supported) by an alliance robot, are all higher tetras (not touching the robot) from that same alliance discounted as well?
-- I think it would be that any tetra your alliance is touching would be discounted, but only that tetra. In the definition of "stacked" in manual, a tetra is not considered stacked if it is touching a robot of the same alliance. Implies just that one tetra.
-- But, another Q, if you're touching the lowest one on the pile, you're most likely obviously not supporting it (since it would have i.e. 4 on top of it), so seems a little unfair to discount that tetra.... But that definition does say it would... But it doesn't say all higher tetras would be discounted..

Again, I wanted to clarify.

ID977 -- Regarding <G14>: If the mechanism requires it, may a robot "stack" a currently held tetra on top of a loading-dock supported tetra in order to lift both off at once in a stack, provided the robot does not interfere with the attendant.
-- Beats me...

Exactly--but it would be a cool mechanism.

Any other thoughts on some of the questionable ones? (or any corrections to my thoughts)....

My only corrections are to correct you about what was an wasn't answered. I responded to each of the questions I asked that you cited.

I served as the "official asker" for my team last year too. So far, this year, I've asked 12 questions, all of which have been assiduously researched to make certain that they were not already answered. There look to be quite a few loopholes and/or discrepancies in this years rules.

--Petey

[Petey]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Has FIRST taken today off? If so I don't blame them, they deserve it, but there are a lot of Q/A questions to be answered. Any word on when the answers will come (like what to do about a missing Van Door if you didn't get one at all because it is not listed to order in the TIMS)? Also, in posting in the Q/A, please don't do so until the whole manual has been read. I saw lots of stuff in there I could have answered.

Quite.

But there were also a lot of valid questions--and loopholes, and typos--in there as well. It would be nice to know the answer to them--several would be key factors of a robot's design.

--Petey

[AmyPrib]

ID 975 - If the Vision Tetra is scored during autonomous mode, will the awarded "capping" tetras be placed over the corner goals *before* or *after* the hanging tetras are removed (and, if before, would the now-dropped hangers stay scored?)

The question above is answered in G10, from what I see. They are not going to provide the bonus tetras until automode is over. Therefore, if you don't drop the hanging tetra during automode yourself, they will remove the still hanging tetra, and THEN cap the goal with your bonus tetra. So you cannot count on the field attendant to make the hanging one drop due to capping the goal, because they won't do it until after automode is over, which is when they remove any remaining hanging tetras.

Good question - I think I misread the ID974 - so thank you for pointing that out. If blue and red both have one tetra on the floor inside a goal, and none stacked on top.... who would own it??... good question..

Both - each team starts out with equal tetras, equal places.. one difference I might see at the beginning, would be if one team chooses to have a tetra on a robot, and the other does not. The quantity is the same, one loading zone would have one less tetra than the others.
According to Dave Lavery, they will try to keep equalization between a teams set of loading zones....

The other questions I just posted what *I* thought, basing it on some of the rules, but will need to see what the final ruling is.

I am not attempting to answer for FIRST. There are some very good questions in Q/A that I thought might be well suited to post here for discussion and bring to attention to others that may not have thought of it. But there are a number that have been beaten to death and clearly answered, but are still being asked. So I was trying to reduce the repetitive questions, and maybe answer (from manual) more quickly for some people.

There are indeed some very small details left out of some rules, and hopefully we can get them clarified soon, so as not to affect anyone's design or strategies significantly.
Thanks for your comments!!

Originally Posted by Petey

[/b]

This doesn't answer the question asked. Before or after the hangers are dropped? In short, if the bonus goals are capped before the hangers are removed, the hangers will drop and will be scored. Will the score be invalidated? It is a 2 pt (or potentially more) swing.

If there is no majority and no height differential...than what?
Doesn't answer the question.

Interesting. I was wondering if we would start with a fixed number, or whether or not equalization would go on during the match.

That is my thought as well, but I wanted to clear it up.

Again, I wanted to clarify.

Exactly--but it would be a cool mechanism.

My only corrections are to correct you about what was an wasn't answered. I responded to each of the questions I asked that you cited.

I served as the "official asker" for my team last year too. So far, this year, I've asked 12 questions, all of which have been assiduously researched to make certain that they were not already answered. There look to be quite a few loopholes and/or discrepancies in this years rules.

--Petey