The "fix-it window"? Jolly good show -or- is 23 cups of coffee/day really excessive?

[erniep]

Hey fellow FIRST masochists,
Just thought to begin a discussion of the intentional term limits made mandatory by the firmer "fix it window" rules.

It will force many of us to re-introduce ourselves to the rest of modern society in late Feb, instead of the usual late April used by the software guys and uber-roboteers. If-n ya likes yer family, den its a good ting. If not, well there's always that 2 month attic re-insulation project you've been puttin off (known as “ItchFest 2005”).

Personally, I believe that North American coffee imports WILL be significantly effected this year in March, possible resulting in an official complaint from the World Alliance of Coffee Kings Organization (WACKO).

While spending late winter in a sleep deprived, caffeine sustained, stress induced fog could be just the ticket to jump this old dog back into the world of the technically frosty, knowing I must cease and desist at 5:00 pm 2/24/05, kind of gives me a warm fuzzy feeling ....... no wait ...... that’s just too much coffee and a questionable prostate.

See ya round the forums, erniep

[UlTiMaTeP]

ROFLMAO, thats too funny, For the majority there is not enough integrity I believe, things will still happen, just like previous years, the only teams that will be hurt is the honest teams.

[erniep]

Hey,
Maybe we could create an entirely new intelligence agency, based on FIRST robotics. We could start by keeping tabs on the teams who cheat and then take over governmental activities. Domo Arigato, Mr. Gestapo. At least if we used FIRST members, government intelligence wouldn't be an oxymoron anymore.

Actually, I hope that the teams will really stick to there guns on this (G.P. and all that) ..... like robotic steroids, it wouldn't be fair.
Thanx, erniep

[Anchi]

government intelligence wouldn't be an oxymoron anymore.

buahahahha, so true that be, so true that be.

our school kicks us out at 10pm... no late drags for us.... tho seeign as it is 3am and im still modeling a rather unique idea for a manipulator in inventor.... ill be pullin my own all nighters !_~

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Anchi

buahahahha, so true that be, so true that be.

Gee, thanks...

-dave

[Roland]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Gee, thanks...

-dave

Oh, come on, I'm sure he wasn't referring to that part of government.

By the way, you really should have worn a "My other car is STILL on Mars!" shirt at the kickoff.

[cdawzrd]

Originally Posted by Anchi

our school kicks us out at 10pm... no late drags for us.... tho seeign as it is 3am and im still modeling a rather unique idea for a manipulator in inventor.... ill be pullin my own all nighters !_~

Heh. That's why we aren't affiliated with a school... With our own floor of a building, we can come in just about anytime ;-) Does it help? ...not really.

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

At first, I'd say I was a bit apprehensive of this new measure. However, after doing some reading on it, I think I really kind of like it. There is a lot of scouting that can be done beforehand, along with preparing toolkits and other things that they allow for. I would say that taking care of these non-fabricative (if that is a word) arrangements beforehand makes your team a more efficient unit during competition. This means there is less to worry about, leading to more time to work and a good array of tools that were prepared. There's a lot of worry at competition, so this is a way to reduce it.

[PCA]

The stipulation in the new Fix-it Window rules that the coding must be complete and not touched two days after ship date is a little harsh. I don't know about most teams, but on my team the programmers get to see the robot in its final form for about 24 hours before it ships. That's not spread out over a week of work; that's one day. Much of the testing of functions can be done apart from the robot, but gain constants are only really determinable using the robot that will be running on the field at regionals or something very similar. In the past we have built a clone and run our tests on it. This way we could get our values close enough that we could adjust them from the stands/practice field and re-download for the next match. It was invaluable.

However, with the new phrase in the Fix-it Window rules we now have very little time to do anything with our code before we have to stick it in a box and put it on a shelf like our robot. I assume I understand the reason for this, that not all the new teams can, or know to, build a clone robot and so they are at a disadvantage. However, I know that if I am going to not work on the code for nearly as long because I have to put it down 2 days after ship-date I'm probably going to learn a bit less and the experience will be overall less valuable for me as a senior-veteran than it could have been. We did most of our autonomous mode development after ship-date last year, ending up with over 30 different autonomous modes, a nifty data structure, and the ability to climb the platforms to the top (assuming our motors don't die on us mid-attempt, which they did later in the season).

This year there is great potential for autonomous mode. The vision tetra challenge is going to take a little thinking, a little writing, and a whole lot of debugging. The dubugging won't happen without the period between ship-date and the first regional. We aren't going to use something in our program that we aren't confident in. It isn't hard to make a box-bot to test a camera routine on, but if we aren't allowed to change our code we can't.

That is why I take issue with the new Fix-it window. While it doubtlessly levelled the playing field on the mechanical end of things the programmers might have been judged a bit too harshly.

Let it be noted that I, and the rest of MOE, will abide by whatever decision FIRST makes on this matter and would definitely encourage others to do the same.

[Anchi]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Gee, thanks...

-dave

:\ what part you in?

[KimT]

Actually, I think a lot more teams will follow it than you think. These studies have been done where people are given surveys. The surveys say things such as, "Do YOU do <insert bad behavior here>? Do you think others do?" Not surprisingly, everyone who answers says, "No I don't, but everyone else does."

Most interestingly of all, at the end of the survey there was a question, "Did you take this survey seriously? Do you think others did?" This isn't even a bad behavior people would be ashamed to admit - it's more showing that people don't have faith in others.

In other words, I really think most teams will stick by the fix it window. After all, YOUR team wouldn't consider breaking rules, would it? Why would any other?

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by Anchi

:\ what part you in?

Dave would of course be from NASA, the government agency that perplexes me more than any other. I don't like the idea of my tax dollars being spent on Mars rovers, but, at the same time, it's SO FREAKING COOL.

[Anchi]

ah, rock on, i say we switch nasa's and the military's funding eh? im sure we woudl all love that.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by Anchi

ah, rock on, i say we switch nasa's and the military's funding eh? im sure we woudl all love that.

No, not all of us.
</threadjack>

[Carol]

Another thought about the Fix-it Window. What about those teams that don't meet right after school, but in the evenings? We meet on Mondays starting at 5:30; if the window closes at 5:00 on Mondays then we miss a whole day of working. Is the rule forcing these teams to change their schedules, even though the students have arranged their lives around the 5:30-8:30 time? What about the non-teacher mentors who don't get off of work until 5:00? Are they banned from working on those Mondays?