How "bad" are motors with "bad" stickers?

[cooknl]

As mentioned by sanddrag and shyra1353 (Message #26 in the same thread), we too received a motor with a red/orange sticker with the handwritten word "BAD" on it.

When we hooked it up to the 12V battery, it seemed to work fine in both directions, plenty of torque, but we haven't done any additional testing.

Has this happened before? (We're rookies...)

[Alex Cormier]

Originally Posted by cooknl

As mentioned by sanddrag and shyra1353 (Message #26 in the same thread), we too received a motor with a red/orange sticker with the handwritten word "BAD" on it.

When we hooked it up to the 12V battery, it seemed to work fine in both directions, plenty of torque, but we haven't done any additional testing.

Has this happened before? (We're rookies...)

well the mentors who did the inventory had noticed that as well for our kit, but one believes it is a gimmick for their company to be able to send them to FIRST. **only is a thought from a mentor**

[Ali Ahmed]

We got that on our one Van Door motor they sent us, we should have gotten 2. We didn't test ti out but if you say that it works fine then I don't think we should that we should ask for another one. How many other teams had that sticker on a motor?

[NoodleKnight]

you only get one van door motor this year, FIRST sent out an email saying that we only get 1 van door and 1 globe, the checklist was a mistake.

Also, did you try running the motor under some load? Maybe you'll see the problems then.

[ebmonon36]

Originally Posted by ali_rockon22

We got that on our one Van Door motor they sent us, we should have gotten 2.

From the FIRST e-mail blast sent out today:

Taigene Sliding Door Motor
The "Gray Container Item 5 Loose" should have contained 1 motor, not 2. The Kit of Parts list incorrectly specified a quantity of 2.
Globe Motor
The "Gray Container Item 5 Loose" should have contained 1 motor, not 2. The Kit of Parts list incorrectly specified a quantity of 2.

Eric

[joker]

i think they should give us the motors that the list says. they should just say o we can get them out so we will say only one. teams really need 2 van doors this year. thoes tetras are heavy.

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by joker

i think they should give us the motors that the list says...

At $20 each, that's $20,000 to add one more Globe motor to the kit and $20,000 to add one more Tiagene motor to the kit. Write FIRST a check for $40,000 and the motors will be sent out ASAP ;-)

Seriously, it is easy to say, "FIRST should have included this" or "The kit really needs that" but how many sponsors did you contact in the off season trying to get them to donate thousands of dollars worth of goods and services to FIRST?

The auto industy in bleeding red ink. I we should all be thankful that Globe and Taigene donated ANY motors this year yet alone 2 per kit - recall that in a prior message I predicted Keyang wouldn't cough up the usual seat motor this year* It is a tough time for the auto industry, we all need to think lean...

Joe J.

*By the way, this is the first year FIRST has not had a seat motor in the kit at least since I have been around in FIRST. I am pretty sure that they were in the kit in year 2 and perhaps since year 1 . FIRST historians, help me out here.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

*By the way, this is the first year FIRST has not had a seat motor in the kit at least since I have been around in FIRST. I am pretty sure that they were in the kit in year 2 and perhaps since year 1 . FIRST historians, help me out here.

2003 did not have it.

[dez250]

Yes from looking in my 1992 manual here, Dr. Joe is correct. In 1992 the only motors that were in the KOP was a set of Delco seat motors. Except in 2003 we didnt use them either.

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

At $20 each, that's $20,000 to add one more Globe motor to the kit and $20,000 to add one more Tiagene motor to the kit. Write FIRST a check for $40,000 and the motors will be sent out ASAP ;-)

Seriously, it is easy to say, "FIRST should have included this" or "The kit really needs that" but how many sponsors did you contact in the off season trying to get them to donate thousands of dollars worth of goods and services to FIRST?

The auto industy in bleeding red ink. I we should all be thankful that Globe and Taigene donated ANY motors this year yet alone 2 per kit - recall that in a prior message I predicted Keyang wouldn't cough up the usual seat motor this year* It is a tough time for the auto industry, we all need to think lean...

Joe J.

*By the way, this is the first year FIRST has not had a seat motor in the kit at least since I have been around in FIRST. I am pretty sure that they were in the kit in year 2 and perhaps since year 1 . FIRST historians, help me out here.

A couple of points:

1. Listen to Dr. Joe. He has had more input with what motors are in the kit, over the years, than anyone else outside of the FIRST staff. If you complain about motors, do something about it for next year.

2. For the first time ever, teams have 6 motors in their kits with power over 300 Watts <edit: 4 CIMs, 2 F-P's>. We have never had more than 4 before. For those of you who want more power - you don't know what you are asking. We have plenty. I shudder to think what some teams can do with all of this added power.

3. 1992-2004 FIRST Competitions included the "seat motor". It was a good little motor. This magically-wound, metallic power pack spun its worm gear fast and turned many a flexible shaft. We remember it fondly. It drove our 'bot in '92, collected balls for us in '98, lifted a 180# goal in '02, and retracted a (non-used) fabric funnel in '04. May it rest in peace. /me wipes tear from eye

Andy B.

[Doug G]

Originally Posted by Andy Baker

A couple of points:

2. For the first time ever, teams have 6 motors in their kits with power over 300 Watts. We have never had more than 4 before. For those of you who want more power - you don't know what you are asking. We have plenty. I shudder to think what some teams can do with all of this added power.

Andy B.

Did I miss something, but I think there is still 4 motors rated over 300 Watts: that's the 4 CIMs. I thought the 2 FP's came in around 150-180 Watts, the Van door around 80 Watts, the ND Window around 45 Watts, the Jideco Window around 25 Watts, the globe around 45 Watts, and the new Mabuchi may be around 100-150 Watts (I think Paul C has this listed in a separate thread). Am I forgetting something? Where are the other two motors that are over 300 Watts?

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by Doug G

Where are the other two motors that are over 300 Watts?

If we believe the specs, the FP motors are over 400W each. If this holds true, they are going to get hotter than Hades insummer if and when they stall or run under high torque.

And that temps gonna climb real fast!

I love the smell of burnt motors in the morning!

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

2003 did not have it.

Yes you are right. Now I recall.

Keyang actually gave that year, but the motors didn't actually show up until the at the last moment before kickoff (you'd be surprise how many donations end up being last minute affairs). FIRST, correctly, made the choice to hold them for the next year.

That means that Keyang didn't give last year either. Hmmm... ...here's to automotive black ink in 2005, profits make everything easier...

Joe J.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Mike Betts

If we believe the specs, the FP motors are over 400W each. If this holds true, they are going to get hotter than Hades insummer if and when they stall or run under high torque.

And that temps gonna climb real fast!

I love the smell of burnt motors in the morning!

Last year, two of these motors were enough to lift a 130 lb robot six feet off the floor in seconds. So you should be able to easily lift 10 tetras at a time to a height sufficient to cap a goal.

You have more than enough power available, the question is "Can build a structure that can handle it and still meet weight requirements?" or "Can you build a gripper that will hold 10 tetras?"

Remember P=F*d/t

Where P=power
F=force
d=distance
t=time

Given enough time, even the weakest motor could lift anything any distance. Decide how much you want to move and how far you want to move it. Then figure out how fast you need to move it. That will tell you how much power you need.

The FPs are vastly underrated by the FIRST community at large, but those of us who have bent 1.5"x1"x1/8" aluminum C-channel with them have great respect for them.

ChrisH

[ahecht]

Originally Posted by cooknl

As mentioned by sanddrag and shyra1353 (Message #26 in the same thread), we too received a motor with a red/orange sticker with the handwritten word "BAD" on it.

When we hooked it up to the 12V battery, it seemed to work fine in both directions, plenty of torque, but we haven't done any additional testing.

Has this happened before? (We're rookies...)

Check out the Q&A:

Originally Posted by ID: 1046

Q:I know that we were only supposed to recieve one sliding door motor, but our one motor has a sticker on it marked "bad". Can we get a replacement?
A:Your motor is good. The sticker is something used in the automotive industry.

So apparently this is a special automotive meaning of BAD that doesn't mean what we think it does.