Batteries Exide 2005 Quanity

[Mike Martus]

In the Q & A this was asked and answered by FIRST.
Section:6.3.4
Q: Does this mean that only two batteries are allowed at a competition? If this is such a problem FIRST should consider no shipment of batteries and supplying them at the competitions!

A: You can bring other batteries to the competition. The only batteries that can be used during the competition are the Exide batteries provided in the 2005 kit. We will not be providing batteries at the competitions.

This concerns me because they seem to be saying the two new ones are the only ones you can use. That will prove to be a major problem for most teams.
The battery chargers cannot keep up with the use of the robots. With the increased number of seeding matches ( I hope) due to 3 team alliances there is no way they will be charged in time.

Add to that the Finals when you run several matches in a short time span and you have a real problem.

Several years ago when this same rule surfaced FIRST found out very quick it was not practical and changed to allow teams to use additional batteries as long as they were 100% identical.

I hope I am not understanding their recent Q & A answer.

Your thoughts on this?

[jeremy562]

I think when they say, "The only batteries that can be used during the competition are the Exide batteries provided in the 2005 kit," what they mean is "The only TYPE OF battery that can be used during the competition are the TYPE OF Exide batteries provided in the 2005 kit."

So if you purchase or otherwise obtain additional batteries, identical to the ones that came in the kit, you can use them in competition.

[Elgin Clock]

OK, Calm down.

In the same section of the manual that says you can only use the Exide batteries, it says you can buy additional ones to use from your local exide distibutor.

But. I think then this rule needs clarification:

<R39> Specific items NOT allowed include:
• Batteries different from or in addition to those provided in the Kit.

But, then again.. We have this:

<R46> The only legal main source of electrical energy on the robot is one of the two 12v DC non-spillable lead acid batteries provided in the Kit of Parts, or a spare of the same part number. The 7.2v "backup" battery is considered an integral part of the Robot Controller, and may not be used for any other purpose. The only 12V battery that may be used on your robot during competition (Friday and Saturday) is the Exide model ES18-12. (Additional ES18-12 batteries may be purchased through your local Exide supplier.) You may use other equivalent 12V batteries during Thursday practice rounds.

That said:

MY question would be, is the 2 battery shipping picture required, or can you ship more than 2 in a crate as long as it is secured as shown in the picture, in a seperate wood box, and in the original boxes.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Mike Martus

This concerns me because they seem to be saying the two new ones are the only ones you can use. That will prove to be a major problem for most teams.
The battery chargers cannot keep up with the use of the robots. With the increased number of seeding matches ( I hope) due to 3 team alliances there is no way they will be charged in time.

Add to that the Finals when you run several matches in a short time span and you have a real problem.

Several years ago when this same rule surfaced FIRST found out very quick it was not practical and changed to allow teams to use additional batteries as long as they were 100% identical.

At kickoff, one of the speakers mentioned energy as a constraint this year, along with time, materials, etc.

If you treat energy as a constraint, it is certainly possible for a single 6 amp charger to keep up. If you design your machine to run the motors continuously at almost stall (low efficiency) with the compressor always on, of course you will have problems with energy management. Taking that same robot and gearing things down and run the compressor less, you'll use a lot less energy.

Over the past few years, I've seen people almost brag about how their battery makes it through one match. To me that's easy, what's worth bragging about is making the battery last.

Last year, the team I worked with won a regional and our battery would last 6 matches. It isn't necessary to burn through the battery to do well.

Whether or not FIRST intended the battery to be a constraint this year, I think everybody should take the time to consider energy when designing their robots.

[Joe Johnson]

I don't know why this has to be a question over and over (at least for the last several years).

Supposing that FIRST knows what it wants to say wouldn't statement 1 or statement 2 cover things clearly (even including the 7.2V batteries and non-function decorations):

#1 (only 2 allowed rule)
With the exceptions the Practice Rounds, only 1 of THE 2 Exide batteries (model XXX) provided in the KOP may be used to power robots while they are on the competition field. If a kit battery is damaged or lost it may be replaced with an identical battery of the same model, but this must be done with GP in mind because the intent of this rule to equalize the battery power available to teams during the competition. Batteries may be charged in the pits within the limits of rule <RXX> (the one concerning the amperage of the charger).

This rule does not, of course, apply to the 7.2V NiCad battery (used to power servos and to prevent "brown outs" on the radios) and any batteries used to power any non-functional decorations.

#2 (more than 2 allowed rule)
With the exceptions the Practice Rounds, only 1 Exide battery (model XXX) may be used to power robots while they are on the competition field. 2 such batteries are in the KOP. Additional batteries may be acquired by teams.

This rule does not, of course, apply to the 7.2V NiCad battery (used to power servos and to prevent "brown outs" on the radios) and any batteries used to power any non-functional decorations.

Does this cover things or is this just as confusing?

Joe J.

[Cory]

Joe: I think that's completely non ambiguous and FIRST should release a rewording of the rules tha's formed like that, for whichever choice is correct.

[Joe Ross]

ID: 1137 Section: 6.3.4 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/13/2005
Q: Please be exact. Are teams allowed to purchase additional batteries as the rules say and use these identical batteries during competition or are teams required to "ONLY USE SHIPPED THE KIT battery? Recharge time and cycle life is limited.
A: You may purchase identical batteries and use them.


ID: 1146 Section: 6.3.4 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/13/2005
Q: Question 1008 said you can only use the Exide batteries provided in the 2005 kit. Question 1137 says you can purchase identical batteries and use them. How many can be used at the competition?
A: There is no limit to the number of batteries that can be brought to a competition is long as the requirements of <R46> are met.


ID: 1147 Section: 6.3.4 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/13/2005
Q: Since the Exide batteries supplied in the 2004 Kit have the same part number (different sticker) can they be used? If not how do we ensure we can get correct batteries?
A: Yes, see <R46>