Is the suggested Vision Camera setup ILLEGAL?!

[seanwitte]

Originally Posted by Jon K.

Except for the fact that you cannot touch your controls and robot after the vision tetras have been placed per rules
<G05> The VISION TETRAS will be placed on the field by field attendants after the ROBOTS have been
positioned. The locations of the VISION TETRAS will be determined by random selection from a set of 8
possible starting locations (as identified on the “2005 Field Lines and Layout” drawing). ROBOTS may not
be repositioned or manipulated in any manner after the VISION TETRAS have been placed on the field.
<G06> No team member may pass the Starting Line in their TEAM ZONE until the conclusion of the
AUTONOMOUS PERIOD. All team members must stay within their alliance’s designated TEAM ZONE
during the match. If a team member passes the Starting Line before the autonomous period ends, except to
save their controls from a violent collision of a robot into the diamond plate, or leaves their TEAM ZONE
during the match, the team will be assessed a 10 point penalty. If a HUMAN PLAYER leaves the HUMAN
PLAYER ZONE at any time during the match for any reason other than personal safety, the team will be
assessed a 10 point penalty. However, if such actions are deemed by the referee to be so serious to have
affected the outcome of the match, the team may be disabled and disqualified.

Whats hes saying is that with the servos attached to the camera module it will track the current color by itself. If the servos are not connected to the RC they they will not be disabled before the start of the match. They could potentially lock and track the tetras as they're carried out on the field. Whether it would work in practice is another issue....

[Mr. Lim]

This question has been answered via Official Q&A.

The suggested Vision Camera setup is LEGAL.

Moderators may close this thread.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

We have our answer.

This answer seems to be contradicted by the following answer.

Originally Posted by FIRST Q&A

ID:1184 Section:5.3.5 Status:Answered Date Answered:1/14/2005
Q:The suggested camera configuration available from: www.ifirobotics.com requires a servo that pans the camera left and right to be directly connected to the camera board. Is this illegal according to <R53?
A:Yes.

Thoughts?

[russell]

Oh great. What do I do now?

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by Karthik

This answer seems to be contradicted by the following answer.

Yeah, I saw that too... I'm hoping they read the second one wrong - perhaps they thought it said "legal" instead of the actual word "illegal". I can't imagine how they could intentionally answer those questions differently, seeing as they're consecutive question numbers AND they were answered within hours (maybe even minutes) of each other.

I guess someone will need to put up yet another question, saying that the answers to 1183 and 1184 contradict each other and could they please clarify. I hate to have to ask them redundant questions (because I know they're busy enough), but I'm not sure what else to do.

[Greg Marra]

if (cameralock == 0) {
 deadreckon = 1
}

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by Greg Marra

if (cameralock == 0) {
 deadreckon = 1
}

programmerStress++; //

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

I guess someone will need to put up yet another question, saying that the answers to 1183 and 1184 contradict each other and could they please clarify. I hate to have to ask them redundant questions (because I know they're busy enough), but I'm not sure what else to do.

The answer to 1184 has been removed. I guess that means the answer to 1183 stands and it is legal.

[CJO]

Wait, the camera should not be illegal, servo's are not relays, motors, or motor speed controllers. Running the servos through the IFI controller effectivly makes the camera a waste because of the slow update time.

As it points out in the camera module, the servos should be connected directly to the camera.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by CJO

Wait, the camera should not be illegal, servo's are not relays, motors, or motor speed controllers. Running the servos through the IFI controller effectivly makes the camera a waste because of the slow update time.

Servos most definitely are motors. The fact that the angular rotation of the output shaft can be precisely controlled does nothing to change its status as a motor.

That aside, I look at the use of the servos as documented in the IFI documentation as components within a single assembly of kit components that FIRST has told us to build. I think that thier use in this context would be OK. Let's see what FIRST says.

-dave

[Mr. Lim]

We have our answer (again):

ID: 1184 Section: 5.3.5 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/17/2005
Q: The suggested camera configuration available from: www.ifirobotics.com requires a servo that pans the camera left and right to be directly connected to the camera board. Is this illegal according to <R53?

A: No. (Answer CHANGED 1/17/2005) Servos connected to the camera module are considered part of the camera module and can only be connected to it.

[RIgnazio]

But do not forget this:
You CAN NOT use the camera servo outputs to power the angling servos for the camera. If you wish to have the camera move on its own, those outputs must go through the FRC Controller, and the FRC Controller must control the servos.

See Section 5: The Robot (http://www2.usfirst.org/2005comp/Se...5-The_Robot.pdf)

<R53> Custom Circuits may not:
• Interfere with the operation of other robots
• Directly affect any output devices on the robot, such as by providing power directly to a motor, supplying a PWM signal to a speed controller or supplying a control signal to a relay module. (Custom high impedance voltage monitoring or low impedance current monitoring circuitry connected to the robot’s electrical system is acceptable, because the effect on the robot outputs should be inconsequential.)
• Be used for wireless communication, such as sending or receiving a signal to and/or from the alliance station
• Connect to the radio or tether ports on the Robot Controller

Just to help you avoid headaches in the future.
Also, If you go to www.ifirobotics.com and look at the details for the camera, it states for the servo outputs "Not typically used in FIRST competitions" or something to that nature.

[Rocketboy]

Thanks for the heads-up

[Alex1072]

This may be a technicallity, but I thought if it's included in the kit, then it's not a custom circuit? Since all teams get one of these in the Kit, noones at a disadvantage. Is there something I'm missing?

[RIgnazio]

No problem. I had posted in a section with Programming, but the topic was closed. (I guess I was a little off topic) I was told to post in Rules.