Pneumatic's Rules confusion

[Mr. Van]

I think this is the idea: You can not use anything that rookie teams do not have access to. This means any 1/2" pistons. (As far as other off the shelf pistons, I'd tend to think that if you can't order it with the FIRST form, it is not legal.

The rules also clearly state that compressed air may only be stored in the two tanks (one from the kit, one available from IFI). This means that coils of tubing, extra large hoses, etc. that exist on the robot in order to store more air are not allowed. This is probably why the 6ft coiled connector hose was not allowed last year.

-Mr. Van
Coach, 599

[Chris Fultz]

Originally Posted by BillCloyes

What about other cylinders (that do not "do" anything) except hooked to the pneumatic system (per the rules) are added as "dead weight" to better place a robots CG.... Don't they also behave as a 60 psi air storage unit?
-Bill

If they are hooked up "per the rules" they will not function as a storage device, they will function as a pneumatic actuator. The rule clearly states only the two provided cylinders can be used as storage devices. Not extra hose, not extra coils, not the robot frame, not spare pneumatic actuators.

And if the other cylinders are added as "dead weight", why would you hook up pneumatic lines to them and risk the air loss unless you were planning to use that air, clearly in violation of the rules.

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by Mr. Van

The rules also clearly state that compressed air may only be stored in the two tanks (one from the kit, one available from IFI). This means that coils of tubing, extra large hoses, etc. that exist on the robot in order to store more air are not allowed. This is probably why the 6ft coiled connector hose was not allowed last year.

-Mr. Van
Coach, 599

I would have to challenge the fact that coiled hoses store any more than straight hoses that are coiled to allow for expansion. Secondly, you can only have 60 lbs of pressure in the tube which means that it is not really a storage device with any pop.Maybe, just maybe you might be able to fire 1 small cylinder with the air in the hose but without much force.

[ttedrow]

As an inspector at one of last years regionals, I would reject a pneumatic installation that used extra length of tubing for the purpose of added storage volume to the system (See <R87>). If an air cylinder is placed on the robot only for the purpose of storing more air (no electrical connection, output shaft not connected) that would also violate rule <R87>.

Teams that place air cylinders on their robots that look functional but are there only to increase the volume violate the FIRST CREDO of GRACIOUS PROFESSIONALISM.

[Fred Hord]

Originally Posted by Nitroxextreme

i know there is another thread but it doesnt get any traffic

im very lost with these rulings about the pneumatics
we are going to use the free cyclinders from bimba
however we got a rotary from parker
Also we were lookin into pneumatic devices (ex pneumatice gripper (pre made)

Are they allowed (both the rotary from parker and/or the pneumatic devices)

Another question: is it possible to use a bimba non rotating linear pneumatic

The bimba cylinders are ordered on www.bimba.com. The rotary actuator is also ordered on this web site. I can't anwser what else is legal.

[Mr. Van]

Originally Posted by Steve W

I would have to challenge the fact that coiled hoses store any more than straight hoses that are coiled to allow for expansion. Secondly, you can only have 60 lbs of pressure in the tube which means that it is not really a storage device with any pop.Maybe, just maybe you might be able to fire 1 small cylinder with the air in the hose but without much force.

Of course, if the tube is coiled in order to allow expansion, then I would agree it should be legal.

-Mr. Van
Coach, 599

[ngreen]

Originally Posted by Mr. Van

Of course, if the tube is coiled in order to allow expansion, then I would agree it should be legal.

-Mr. Van
Coach, 599

Has anyone got a ruling on this. I tried to read Q & A which didn't seem to give a clear answer except looking at the flow chart. The flow chart is not really specific on definitions. I don't think it offers any safety risk when it is rated for 200 psi. It is 1/4" which is the same as the other stuff. If you have a moving part it offers no extra storage and might possibility be less total tubing.

I hope FIRST offers at least offers a more clear cut rule regarding off the shelf tubing.

[gosling2003]

So I was reading above that 2 air storage tanks are allowed on the robot this year. One is provided and the other apparently we can order. Is it allowed for the second cylinder instead of ordering it to use one of the tanks from last year, since our team never used it in the first place? The old tanks are identical to the new ones so I don't see any reason why we can't use them. Can anyone clarify?

Also, only a max of 2 tanks are allowed right? We can't use more than 2 even if they are identical?

[Chris Fultz]

Read rules:

R02 "only in the two Clippard Instruments tanks provided in the kit" and

R87 "you may not use extraneous lengths of pneumatic tubing to increase the storage capacity of the air storage system.".

You only got Clippard tank in the kit, so you can get another one free, or use one from 2004. They are identical and pass the other rules.

You cannot use coiled tube or big coils of tubing.

The specific question was asked, and answered, in the 2004 Q & A.

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by ngreen

Has anyone got a ruling on this. I tried to read Q & A which didn't seem to give a clear answer except looking at the flow chart. The flow chart is not really specific on definitions. I don't think it offers any safety risk when it is rated for 200 psi. It is 1/4" which is the same as the other stuff. If you have a moving part it offers no extra storage and might possibility be less total tubing.

I hope FIRST offers at least offers a more clear cut rule regarding off the shelf tubing.

Watch for question ID 1407. I hope that this will give us our answer.

Chris, last years rules do not apply. Besides there were regionals were coiled tube was allowed. The question stated above should answer our questions. You can make coiled tube but it tends up 2x the size of the purchased and holds more air. It also does not tend to hold its shape as well.

[BillCloyes]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

...You only got Clippard tank in the kit, so you can get another one free...

Perhaps I overlooked something...How/what/when/where do we get the second Clippard tank for free?

Sorry if this seems like a remedial question, but any info on this would be much appreciated.

-Bill

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by BillCloyes

Perhaps I overlooked something...How/what/when/where do we get the second Clippard tank for free?

Sorry if this seems like a remedial question, but any info on this would be much appreciated.

-Bill

You need to order from IFI and it is not quite free. You have to pay for shipping.

[Steve W]

I guess that this is our answer:

ID: 1407 Section: 5.3.10 Status: Answered Date Answered: 2/3/2005
Q: Question ID 1179 did not answer the question. After much discussions there has not been a concensus as to whether 1/4" coiled hose can be used for expansion reasons? We would like to see a yes or no answer please.
A: No. It does not pass the 2005 Part Use Flowchart for a fitting or a valve.