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Unread 31-01-2005, 09:36
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Re: Pneumatics Size confusion

any updates on this - we are in the same boat and want to use the 1.5 24" piston
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Unread 31-01-2005, 10:56
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Re: Maximum Piston Length

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad1279
In 2004, a 1-1/2" x 24" cylinder was legal, and was listed on the fax bimba order form.
I wouldn't bet on that interpretation. I think FIRST's response would have to be "anything from prior year's that complies with this year's rules and Use Flowchart," e.g., solenoids, storage tanks, permitted cylinder sizes listed in the pneumatics manual.

Is it an Air Cylinder ordered from the Custom Cylinder Order Form?

Is it a purchased fitting or valve rated for 125psi
Or
A purchased cylinder or rotary actuator identical to those available on the Custom Cylinder Order Form?

Previous year’s pneumatic components
BUT ONLY
The cylinders and solenoid valves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveW
Ask the question again on the Q&A. Be very direct with your question and ask for the official ruling.
I thought the answer was very specific. It has to be listed in the pneumatics manual for it to be legal, or explicitly called out like the TI pressure switch. A couple of similar questions have been posted as follow-ups by people in this thread, but not answered yet.
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Last edited by Mark McLeod : 31-01-2005 at 11:16.
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Unread 31-01-2005, 14:55
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Re: Pneumatics Size confusion

Ok, now that I look at things, it seems a bit unfair to have the rule <R91> clearly allow previous years cylinders and then in week three have a Q & A answer (1334) that seems to contradict this rule.

Fortunately, we are not planning on using a 1.5" bore 24" throw cylinder, but woe to those teams that are just finding out about this rule change.

I suppose this means that the cylinders that were provided in kits from previous years (like the SMC 1" bore 5" throw from 2000) are not allowed?

Did we get an official statement regarding the 0.5" bore cylinders from previous years?

Perhaps we will hear the final rule in update 7?

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Unread 31-01-2005, 15:53
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adding to the confusion

Not to add to the confusion but...

We printed our 2005 pneumatics manual off the First Pneumatics website within the first week after kickoff (and yes it was labeled 2005...).

It's order form included the 12" and 24" stroke (1.5" bore) pneumatics and so we designed our robot accordingly.

We were all prepared to order when I started seeing people asking questions on the Q&A board, so I download a "new copy" ...and those sizes were gone.

Soo we re-designed...and then go to place the order via the Bimba website (per the manual's instructions) and find that those sizes are once again available to FIRST teams to order as their free Bimba cylinders... so we went back to our original design (using the 1.5"-ers (it also happened to be cheaper)) and placed the order. The Bimba web tracking shows that they shipped 01/28/2005 (hoping we get them in the next few days).

At the time of writing this ,the only response that FIRST has given is that we should refer to the manual for clarification... and as I've read the manual and the order form and find that it throws things to the website (where all the ordering must be done anyhow...).
...and guessing by the view count on this thread, I'm not the only one who thinks there is some contradiction ("confusing statements", at best) within and between the Q&A board, the pneumatics manual, the order forms, and the order-placing-website.

From a slightly different angle... Being a team on a budget (a budget of actual funds available, not just as what we can put the robot), if it turns out that we are not allowed to use cylinders that we received through the "FIRST/Bimba free cylinder program", I would expect that we be allowed to exchange them for free legal sized cylinders and that FIRST pickup the tab for [overnight] shipping for causing the confusion.

This may seem like a tad bit much, but isn't the reasoning behind being limited to these certain sizes is to help "equal the field" by making all teams only use sizes that are available for free. If teams can't use the "free ones", isn't this defeating the purpose?

oh well...just my $.02

Last edited by BillCloyes : 01-02-2005 at 14:27. Reason: mild rant removed due to a cooler head prevailing
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Unread 31-01-2005, 18:57
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Re: Pneumatics Size confusion

we are one of those teams that is in this problematic situation

if we cant use the 24 in 1 1/2 bore our design will be able to be adapted, but a big incovenience is our time and added weight that will have to be taken off from somewhere else, as well as the extra money for the cylinders and overnight shipping coming our of our budget (the overnight will be like 30-50 of what it actually costs for the cylinders)

And as a response to all those who wanted a very detailed question asked on Q & A i did post 1 (it was to long so it continued through 3) check and see if it covers everything ID 1423-1425 (maybe off by one or 2).
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  #36   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-01-2005, 19:37
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Re: Pneumatics Size confusion

I think we should all be watching question 1385 in the next few days, it looks like it will be able to be answered the most effectively (although it was posted 4 days ago).

And yes, we were planning on using the 1.5" bore 24" stroke cylinder, and at this point in the season, not being able to use this would seriously hinder our capability to finish the robot on time.

-Daniel
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  #37   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2005, 10:57
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Re: Pneumatics Size confusion

(I am sending this note to FIRST before posting here)

Andy B.

Last edited by Andy Baker : 01-02-2005 at 11:03.
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Unread 03-02-2005, 18:08
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Re: Pneumatics Size confusion

FYI: the 1.5" bore, 24" stroke cylinder is legal since it is available on the web page.

From FIRST Q&A directly:

Quote:
ID: 1335 Section: 5.3.10 Status: Answered Date Answered: 2/3/2005
Q: What is the maximum stroke that can be used for an 1 1/2" dia cylinder? The FIRST Free Pneumatic Components Order Form at the end of the Pneumatics Manual shows 11", while the Bimba web site page entitled Free Pneumatic Components Order For
A: CORRECTED ANSWER 2/3/2005 AT 1330. CORRECTED ANSWER The manual is correct. It tells you to go to the Bimba site for all of the available sizes. Old Answer The pneumatics manual takes precedence.
ID: 1385 Section: 5.3.10 Status: Answered Date Answered: 2/3/2005
Q: Strokes 12" & 24" are available for 1 1/2" bore from Bimba / First special order section but not listed in the Pneumatic Manual Order sample (pg. 19). Please definitively clarify if 12" & 24" are allowed.
A: WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE OBVIOUS CONFUSION WE HAVE INFLICTED UPON TEAMS, PARTICULARLY BY OUR ANSWER TO #1335. We were correct in our answer (the manual takes precedence) as it points you to the Bimba site, but we were far from clear. We will clarify the answer to #1335. As the Pneumatics Manual states very clearly on P19... Please check the Bimba web site for available strokes in each bore size. These are the cylinders you can use.
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  #39   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2005, 18:43
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Re: Pneumatics Size confusion

Thanks for that. That takes a huge load off of my mind (and other teams as well).
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Unread 04-02-2005, 12:05
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Re: Pneumatics Size confusion

...breathes sigh of relief... and then goes to open the box of bimba freebies mentioned earlier (one 1.5 x 24 and two 1.5 x 12)...
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Unread 13-02-2005, 11:07
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Re: Pneumatics Size confusion

Here is my question: what is the stoke and bore of the one piston that is given [came in the kit], we would like to put it to use and need to know the specs, I donnot see it on pg. 7 cylinders part of the pneumatics manual.
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Unread 13-02-2005, 11:10
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Re: Pneumatics Size confusion

12 inch stroke 1 inch bore (I Think)
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Unread 14-02-2005, 13:37
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Re: Pneumatics Size confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by reilly
Here is my question: what is the stoke and bore of the one piston that is given [came in the kit], we would like to put it to use and need to know the specs, I donnot see it on pg. 7 cylinders part of the pneumatics manual.

"... Cylinder 1.5” bore x 8” stroke; rear pivot mt. 1.5DPSR8.00 ..."

Page 4 (of 7) on the KoP checklist (9th item from top of page)

-Bill
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