Question on section 5, <R58>

[ryan_f]

Ok well im making a layout of the electronics and this is what i have:

http://tnt.cust.nearlyfreespeech.net...ount_plate.jpg

On the middle layer, it's supposed to be the breaker panel and not the robot controllers (they have the same mounting holes)

Now <R58> states:

All circuit breakers must be accessible for inspection at each FIRST Robotics Competition event.


Would that be considered accessible. And if not, what if the top layer was able to come off quickly to make the breaker accessible

[AIBob]

I do not think that that is accessible enough for the inspection, I would recommend that you move some of it.
But I am not definitively positive of that, I would ask in the Q&A section to be sure.

[Justin_302]

how much of a clearence is between the Victors and the plate above them? you need at least 2 inches for the fans to circulate air properly

[ryan_f]

there's about 1 inch clearance

This is an updated version. its the same thing except the top layer is hinged (the mechanism isn't really shown but the top layer is shown in the up position). Now would this comply with the rules?

http://tnt.cust.nearlyfreespeech.net...unt_plate1.jpg

[Justin_302]

it would comply with the rules.....but the pwm's need clearence so they dont overheat. I believe what i read was 2 inches

[Josh Hambright]

Looks pretty good, but i would have to say that speaking from experience, using a layered approach like this ends up being tons of extra work and frustration in the long run. Avoid it like the plague if at all possible. However i have been in situations where that is not possible and you have to do what you can do with the space available. But over all the layout looks good, but avoid layering stuff if possible.

They want you to have a minimum of 2 inches clearance between the top of the victor fans and anything else, this causes the air to circulate better and which prevents overheating and possible damage to the victor...and at a replacement costing $114.95, I wouldn't want to take any risk in damaging it...

It isn't an official FIRST rule, but its a recommendation from IFI. Unless you can't avoid this, I highly recommend taking that into consideration.

[miketwalker]

I have to back oneangrydwarf and DJ up on this one. You NEED much more space then you have for those victors... you're going to have MAJOR heating issues, and what happens if you need to change the wiring for some reason? Trust me... it happens, and to undo all of that and then try to wire it would be a nightmare. Plus, you're not taking into account the fact that the wires don't bend perfectly, they need room to flow... it'd be nearly (if not completly) impossible to wire the victors as they are now because of all the wires running into each other, and making an even bigger nightmare if you have to sort through the wires... no matter how well you try to organize them. For example, your breaker panel has grounds pointing straight up... taking into account the crimp ends and the wire... you will be crammed for space with that layer configuration when the top hinged section is put down.

Definitly need to go back and revamp that layer setup... it's gonna make your life very, very hard.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by ryan_f

Now <R58> states:
All circuit breakers must be accessible for inspection at each FIRST Robotics Competition event.
Would that be considered accessible. And if not, what if the top layer was able to come off quickly to make the breaker accessible

Ryan,
The circuit breakers need to be accessible so that inspectors can see that the correct breakers are in place and used as designed. I personally would spread things out a little, and you are likely to find that the victors are going to need some circulating air. You could always drill some large holes in the center plate for additional air flow. I have seen designs like this in the past and they are very cool if they work.
Just a reminder to all, give the inspectors some thought when designing the layout. It will help everyone if they can get through your robot quickly.

[Mike Hendricks]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Just a reminder to all, give the inspectors some thought when designing the layout. It will help everyone if they can get through your robot quickly.

Thats intresting. Last year, we had lexan shields on the sides of our bot, with some transparent paper that had our sponsers printed on it. This paper, covered all our electronics, including the breaker panels. There was a hole cut out so you could get a large hand inside to easily kill the 120a breaker. The inspectors (at Sac AND Atlanta) never questioned any of the electronics, and there was NO way they could see them. Our bot passed inspection in less than 10 minutes at both events. I was actually rather suprised on how easy the process went .. I figured it was going to take much longer than it did.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by PhatMike

Thats intresting. Last year, we had lexan shields on the sides of our bot, with some transparent paper that had our sponsers printed on it. This paper, covered all our electronics, including the breaker panels. There was a hole cut out so you could get a large hand inside to easily kill the 120a breaker. The inspectors (at Sac AND Atlanta) never questioned any of the electronics, and there was NO way they could see them. Our bot passed inspection in less than 10 minutes at both events. I was actually rather suprised on how easy the process went .. I figured it was going to take much longer than it did.

Mike,
Although each event has a different inspection coordinator, there is an attempt to instruct inspectors on following the same procedure at all events. About 40% of the two page inspector's checkoff list is devoted to electrical. And requires that the inspector be able to see the fuse block, wiring (correct AWG, connectors and for wiring that could snag on another robot), speed controllers and relays. They should also check the motors for correct type and number and as a last check, see that the robot turns on, illuminates the color Team ID lighting and that the controller has the correct team number set. The exact time for inspection varies with design. If you don't use pneumatics, most of the first page gets skipped. For rookies reading this post, the inspection process is to insure the rulebook was followed, but more importantly, inspectors want your robot to be able to run without problems on the playing field. If your robot goes up in flames, your alliance partners suffer and the whole competition will have to wait while damage control comes out and sweeps your robot into a container. (hasn't happened yet.) Inspectors do find problems from time to time that were overlooked by the team. Your inspector should be assisting your robot to be competitive and legal.