Team update 8 now out.

[Kyle]

Team update #8 is now out and available at http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/tmup.htm

some main points are
there will be practice Field materials at the events but it is up to non FIRST people to set up and man them
G14 is modified to add a 10 point penalty for teams touching the auto loader before entering the loading zone.

[bigqueue]

Yes....so the question I have is, what is the definition of being "in the loading zone"?

Does having an arm extending over the yellow triangle count....or does a robot hAVE TO BE "touching" the triangle?

Does the manual describe that being "in the loading zone" means?

I suppose it does because there are so many rules about not interfering witha robot when it is in the loading zone.

Can anyone point me at an answer to when one is in the loading zone? (sorry if this is a dumb question....I might have missed the obvious definition in the rules)

-Quentin

[Andrew Schuetze]

Originally Posted by bigqueue

Yes....so the question I have is, what is the definition of being "in the loading zone"?

This is an important question and I think somewhere in the FIRST Q & A early on they implied that a portion of the robot had to be over the triangle base. They also implied that one should make it obvious that their robot was "In the Zone."

This is obviously a safety concern for the volunteers who will be reloading. It would be nasty to see someone get a fracture or bloody nose while reloading the station.

I should quote my references but I have grade reports to get out tomorrrow

[AIBob]

Originally Posted by bigqueue

Yes....so the question I have is, what is the definition of being "in the loading zone"?

Does having an arm extending over the yellow triangle count....or does a robot hAVE TO BE "touching" the triangle?

Does the manual describe that being "in the loading zone" means?

I suppose it does because there are so many rules about not interfering witha robot when it is in the loading zone.

Can anyone point me at an answer to when one is in the loading zone? (sorry if this is a dumb question....I might have missed the obvious definition in the rules)

-Quentin

Originally Posted by Andrew Schuetze

I should quote my references but I have grade reports to get out tomorrrow

Here is your reference:
Q&A #978:
"ID: 978 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/11/2005
Q: Regarding <G17>: What are the parameters for being "in" a loading zone? (i.e., must some part of the robot be touching the yellow triangle, et cetera)

A: There are no yellow triangles in the loading zones. The robot base and / or drive train must be touching the loading zone. The intent of this rule is that you must be in the loading zone. By making it blatantly obvious that you are in the loading zone, you will draw far less attention from the referees. "

[meaubry]

What am I missing here? The loading zone is NOT clearly identified, yet you might get penalized if you aren't in it while attempting to load a tetra.
What does blatantly obvious mean, when the loading zone is not clearly identified? It is clear to me that the triangles don't define the loading zone, but what does? Wouldn't it be easier on everyone if the Loading zone were clearly outlined using white duct tape. Please indicate the area that the robot base or drive train must be in before the robot can touch an auto loader, otherwise it comes down to a judgement call by the referee as to the location of the robots wheels at the moment the loader is touched. In some cases (robots with very long arms) it will be obvious. On the shorter armed robots it won't be as easy to tell, because the referee cannot be looking at 2 things at the same time.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by meaubry

What am I missing here? The loading zone is NOT clearly identified, yet you might get penalized if you aren't in it while attempting to load a tetra.
What does blatantly obvious mean, when the loading zone is not clearly identified? It is clear to me that the triangles don't define the loading zone, but what does? Wouldn't it be easier on everyone if the Loading zone were clearly outlined using white duct tape. Please indicate the area that the robot base or drive train must be in before the robot can touch an auto loader, otherwise it comes down to a judgement call by the referee as to the location of the robots wheels at the moment the loader is touched. In some cases (robots with very long arms) it will be obvious. On the shorter armed robots it won't be as easy to tell, because the referee cannot be looking at 2 things at the same time.

Please read Section 4 of the manual. In particular look at the definitions section, and the entry for "Loading Zone." Please refer to the artwork on the first page of Section 4, with the big arrows that say "Loading Zones" by them.

The loading zones are quite clearly identified. Question #978 makes it clear what the referees will be looking for when they check to see if you are "in" the loading zone.

-dave

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by meaubry

What am I missing here? The loading zone is NOT clearly identified, yet you might get penalized if you aren't in it while attempting to load a tetra...

You're missing Section 4 of the manual, apparently. The loading zone is clearly defined as follows:

LOADING ZONE – The triangular colored area on the floor at the sides of the field where robots may receive and/or retrieve TETRAS that are introduced into the game.

[Paul Copioli]

The blue (or red) triangles DO define the loading zone. The manual states that they are triangles with each side 36" long. I have taken the intent of the rule to be this (purely my opinion):

1. Don't have your robot positioned in front of a goal and reach over and grab a tetra from the loading station.

2. Don't grab the tetra with a long arm before your drive base gets to the triangle.

3. If your drive base is covering some portion of the triangle, you will be considered "in the loading zone"


Now, I know these are assumptions I am making, but I think they are logical. Will a ref be laying on the ground to see if my wheels are touching the triangle on the floor or will a ref be looking for my drive base to cover the triangle? I don't know, but I am guessing that it will be the latter.

-Paul

[russell]

Ok, I just want to be very clear on this. Is the loading zone three dimensional, or is it two dimensional? I think the problem here is their use of the word "in" rather than the word "on". "In" kind of implies a three dimensional area, but as I am reading things it is actually two dimensional.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by russell

Ok, I just want to be very clear on this. Is the loading zone three dimensional, or is it two dimensional? I think the problem here is their use of the word "in" rather than the word "on". "In" kind of implies a three dimensional area, but as I am reading things it is actually two dimensional.

Every indication that I've gotten is that it is two dimensional.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by russell

Ok, I just want to be very clear on this. Is the loading zone three dimensional, or is it two dimensional? I think the problem here is their use of the word "in" rather than the word "on". "In" kind of implies a three dimensional area, but as I am reading things it is actually two dimensional.

It is two dimensional.

The same 'in' is used when referring to an end zone in football, but we know it's two dimensional.
"Did he get in the end zone?"

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Ogre

It is two dimensional.

The same 'in' is used when referring to an end zone in football, but we know it's two dimensional.
"Did he get in the end zone?"

The end zone is three dimensional though. If the football crosses the plane of the goal line, it's "in", regardless of whether the ball or the player touches the ground.

But the loading zones are 2D, it seems

[meaubry]

Thankyou Dave for clearing up my concern. I have read section 4 and I missed the color of the triangle was red or blue NOT yellow. With the response written "There are no yellow triangles in the loading zones", I assumed the question author had stated the color correctly and that I missed something. My fault - it's clear now that the zones are clearly marked (they are NOT yellow).