American "Selectiveness"

[Wolfe]

The thing that annoyed me the most at the nationals was the Americans who are unable to think of anything outside the USA. About a quarter of the awards speakers who named the competition called it US FIRST instead of just FIRST. Many of these people spoke as if there were no international teams involved in FIRST, making constant references to American high schools and American students.

And don't tell me they were talking about North and South America as a whole. Nobody says it that way, and besides, there was a team from England so that’s incorrect as well.

What really annoyed me is that talking to Americans after the awrds ceremony, none of them seemed to notice. It's the American paradigm, to half of them, it doesn't pop into their minds that there is a whole world outside their borders.

This year there was an amazing expansion of FIRST in Canada. It went from 3 teams last year to 26 teams and a new regional! Canadian teams went from 0 awards in all other years to 13 awards!! including 3 regional victories and a regional chairman's award, against some VERY good teams. It is also considerably more difficult for Canadian teams to participate in FIRST because of our low dollar. It's also quite difficult for a foreign team to be at any FIRST event because they are so heavily Americanised. The resounding success of Canadian teams is due largely to the efforts of Mark Breadner and Woburn collegiate (#188). Why wasn't any of this mentioned? This is some really amazing stuff!

The reason it wasn't mentioned is that despite the name change and a bunch of superficial changes on the FIRST website, the attitude is that this is still an American competition and that the International teams are just along for the ride. There doesn't seem to be the kind of ownership that American teams have. For example, all those important people who went around visiting the regional. Didn't any of them feel it might be neat to see a new regional in a new country with 2 dozen new teams?

What I’m trying to say is that FIRST doesn’t really seem all that concerned with international teams. There’s the lack of credit, the lack of encouragement. Things like, ordering everything from small parts are much more difficult outside the USA. And worst of all is the idea that it’s still an American competition. As well as the frenzy of patriotism that simply manifests as extra long national anthems, and an obsession with the American flag!

[kane]

Lets play a game of good idea bad idea

Good idea: Letting people know your problems

Bad Idea: Bashing America when over 90% of this board is American.


But lets examine the facts, many of these people are returning speakers, and as many people know change is hard so if you spent the last 2 or 3 years calling it US FIRST chances are that subconciously doing it. Trust me their is no American conspiricy to bash the other countries involved, but lets not forget where most of the teams are and where it was founded and where the nationals were being held. Why did it appeal more to americans? because its In AMERICA!. If it was in Canada im sure it would favor Canada.

The reason most teams didn't notice is because the simply Don't care what they call it, they could call it INTERNATIONAL FIRST and i bet you half the people won't notice. I don't really care what they call it ITS A NAME.

As for the american flag everywhere well its Patriotism, while im not a patriot i do have some respect for the people in my country, and i like the fact they they support our country.

Oh and By the way if we don't know there's other countries outside our borders what happens to those millions and millions of dollars we send out in forgin aid, what about the red cross, what about the american troops, what about the aid workers, Think a little bit man. America isin't filled with a bunch of $@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#es were a lot smarter and have a lot smaller egos than you think we do.

Try not to get to worked up over simple matters

Oh and you might want to get a flameretardent suit.

[Wolfe]

Ok, I can understand that the name is a gradual change. But that doesn't adress the problem that what happened at the Canadian Regional was essentially ignored. And as far as Americans being $@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#es, I'm not saying anything like that. It's just that it doesn't occur to many people that there are other teams. It's subconciously still an American competition.

I'm not saying Americans don't think of the rest of the world, there are the bombings and invasions and oil grabs and bullying of countries all over the world.

[kane]

Originally posted by Wolfe
I'm not saying Americans don't think of the rest of the world, there are the bombings and invasions and oil grabbing and bullying of countries all over the world.

Oh god your asking for it, I'll let someone else handle this one.

[Wolfe]

Hahaha. Don't even get me started on American foreign policy. I'll be going all night.

[David Kelly]

Originally posted by Wolfe
Hahaha. Don't even get me started on American foreign policy. I'll be going all night.

you better stop NOW before you get banned like the last people did!!!

[kane]

Originally posted by Wolfe
Hahaha. Don't even get me started on American foreign policy. I'll be going all night.

Yes it is bad, but it saves lives, helps countries grow, and stops oppressive dictators

wolfe go to the chat now.

YOu got to realize something about america we don't get to make the laws we get to elect the people who make the descisons once their there we have no control over them so BACK OFF

[Quain]

YEa dood.. you might wanna chill a little... It was started in america.. and will continue to have an american touch to it forever.. It started here.. and it will always have an american touch.. tho.. they didn't play our anthem out too much... and don't critisize.. i like Canada..

[Sunny Thaper]

You know, this competition isn't just about robotics either, there are other aspects to it such as animation. As everyone knows, animation really has no part of the fame at all. I think instead of venting your anger you should find a way to change "the American's" view of FIRST. I could sit her and whine all day myself how the animation gets downplayed as well as other aspects of FIRST but instead I choose to talk to the organizers of FIRST and discuss ideas that may change that in the future as you should.

[Wolfe]

Sorry. can't chat. busy with other things.
And i am allowed to express my opinions.

I acknoledge that it is, in many cases the polititians, and i'm not layign blame on the American people. let me state that now. I'm talking about the government don't take it persoanlly I think in many cases if people understood what exactly the American government is doing they'd object. Canada really isn't much better in alot of these things. i'm not trying to get all high-and-mighty here.

We are writting a letter to first about that. And guys one more thing. I am really not angry at all. Niether should you be. If you have a real problem, debate it with me.

[Quain]

You flaming us dosn't fix the problem.. it intensifies it...

[Scottie2Hottie]

As for the national anthem, Thats disney´s responsibility
the freedom singers are owned by disney, and FIRST has no hand in that. As for the other things, its just a name.

[Kris Verdeyen]

As a member of the team responsible for the passing out of American flags to each team, I feel obliged to respond.

American $@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#

First off, the title - please be more courteous - this type of language is not acceptable here.

...constant references to American high schools and American students.

FIRST was created as a response to a problem unique to the culture of the United States. We have one of the most technologically advanced societies on Earth, but we value those people doing the innovating and creating the technology less than, say, Japan or Germany. This is why it is still a priority of FIRST to still develop more teams in the US, as opposed to those in Canada, Europe, or South America.

This year there was an amazing expansion of FIRST in Canada. It went from 3 teams last year to 26 teams and a new regional! Canadian teams went from 0 awards in all other years to 13 awards! .... Why wasn't any of this mentioned? This is some really amazing stuff!

Mentioned where? Lots of teams have great stories to tell. So they tell them here, on the CD forums, or they tell them in a Chairman's award presentation, or they'll tell them to a Judge when he or she comes by to interview them about their efforts in the competition.

...extra long national anthems...

The Liberty Singers (I think that's their name) sing the US's national anthem a lot. The way they sing it is the way they always sing it. They are a patriotic American singing group. It's kind of what they do. And to put it in perspective, the NHL has been an international league for far longer than FIRST, and those things still feature fans who insist on booing at the Canadian National Anthem. FIRST fans at least show respect.

...an obsession with the American flag.

118 is responsible for much of this. We passed out two American flags to each team. We did consider the possibility of printing Canadian and Brazillian flags as well, but in the end, decided against it. Six hundred flags is enough. Does this make us overzealous patriots worthy of scorn? Most people actually kind of liked the flags.

...heavily Americanised.

Shouldn't this be spelled with a 'z'? I guess it's a grey area.

Bottom line, don't take everything so seriously. The people giving the speeches are taking time away from their day jobs, reading speeches written too quickly and with incomplete knowledge about the competiton. They are there because they think FIRST is a good idea, not to slight Canadians.

[kane]

Originally posted by Wolfe
Sorry. can't chat. busy with other things.
And i am allowed to express my opinions.

I acknoledge that it is, in many cases the polititians, and i'm not layign blame on the American people. let me state that now. I'm talking about the government don't take it persoanlly I think in many cases if people understood what exactly the American government is doing they'd object. Canada really isn't much better in alot of these things. i'm not trying to get all high-and-mighty here.

We are writting a letter to first about that. And guys one more thing. I am really not angry at all. Niether should you be. If you have a real problem, debate it with me.

Yes you are allowed to express your opnions but don't flame another country, I'll adimt i don't really like my govermnent, i don't agree with a lot of the laws, but it doesn't really give the citizen of another country the right to bash it, Go to chat.

[Sunny Thaper]

How about Canada, at their regional, ignore the US. That would really teach us wouldn't it??? I think that by not mentioning a country or forgetting the new name you don't neccessarily "bash" on a country. I myself have always just called it Robotics. By calling it robotics I don't think I have offended Dean or any other person involved with the event. I am not neccassarily saying you should just accept it either. I just want you to remember that just expressing your feelings doesn't get you very far. Trying to do something about the problem does.