American "Selectiveness"

[Justin 188]

Uh... I think a moderator should change the name of the thread... the word tagged onto the end would make it offensive for any country

Maybe change it to "Selectiveness"?

[Scorpion515]

Originally posted by J 188
Uh... I think a moderator should change the name of the thread... the word tagged onto the end would make it offensive for any country

Maybe change it to "Selectiveness"?

I agree. The end is very offensive.

FIRST originated in America, and American it should remain. Plus, I feel that when we say US FIRST, we aren't just saying the US. US FIRST is just our name, but its not completely who we are. Yes, a high percentage of the teams are American, but we still accept everyone.

[Justin 188]

Originally posted by Scorpion515

US FIRST is just our name, but its not completely who we are. Yes, a high percentage of the teams are American, but we still accept everyone.

I completely agree. But the point that Wolfe is trying to make, is that when there is something worth mentioning regarding these "other people", namely international participants, it should be mentioned accordingly.

There have been times where FIRST has accordingly given full recognition to non-US participants - but there have been more times when FIRST have beat around the bush about these things.

An example of this is at the Kickoff, when one of the speakers referred to the Canadarm as the "... robotic arm" (with the hesitation included). Sure, the competition is rightfully referred to as US FIRST.... but stuff like what I mentioned above makes for a double standard

[Wolfe]

I have to agree with that. The title is inappropriate. I sincirely appologise to anyone I have offended. THe intention was to get people to read the post, not to anger people. I tried to change it but i can't. if a moderator could change it that would be great

[kane]

Originally posted by Wolfe
The second topic is really what people are getting angry about. What I am saying is that the level of patriotism in America is at such a high level that criticism of the government in the media and by people no longer occurs. People should be incredibly skeptical and critical of their government ALWAYS. And there’s a lot to be critical about!

Hi, I critize my govemnent every chance i get, im a member of the ACLU, what else would you like

and raven whats with the wink, were you lying or something?

[Wolfe]

For that, kane, you are a good man. I know that likely you are very outspoken in many of these matters. The base problem is the media.

Why isn't the media all over george bush? the man just started a war, killed thousands of civilians, decided to invade 3 other countries, is banning stem cell research, is cutting heathcare to buy bombs, is destroyign our environment, and is caught up in the enron scandal. People, I could go on and on and on.

The media should be all over this bafoon like a fat kid on a smartie! but they aren't! Because they see it as being unpatriotic. So all this stuff continues!

[srawls]

I must disagree as well. I take myself to be very patriotic, but that in no way gets in my way of critisizing the government. In fact, it even helps it! I don't want to get into my political views here, but let me assure you I in no way agree with everything the government does but when I wave my flag, I agree with everything the government represents. I wave the flag for freedom, not for foreign policy.

Stephen

[DanL]

Not trying to get in too deep with this thread, I just want to point out the opinions of a lot of people in the pits.

During the opening ceremonies, I was in the pits. They broadcast the anthems on all the screens. During the Brazilian and Canadian anthems, there was almost no change in the pits. I was at the Small Parts table when the Brazilian anthem came on. I saw a whole two people putting their work down and respecting other teams' national anthems. Then as soon as our national anthem came on, the pits went silent.

I was disgusted.

People honored their anthems, but they thought nothing of the anthems of other peoples' countries.

Each anthem meant the same exact thing to different teams. The Brazilian anthem means the same thing to Brazilians as the Canadian anthem means to Canadians and yes, the same thing as the American national anthem means to us Americans.

Yet almost no one in the pits respected the other anthems - songs that instill the same amount of pride to other teams as your anthem does for you.

Yet no one cared - us Americans in the pits honored only our anthem.

If you were in the pits, did you even notice the other anthems? Did you stop what you were doing like you did for our anthem? Or were you one of the people who thought only of themselves?

In protest, I did not put my hand over my heart during the American national anthem.

Just letting you all know how much we 'proud' Americans respect other countries.

[Chris Fultz]

Kids, behave now.

This is a great event, and it is fantastic that there is an international involvement. But it is a US based organization, being held on US soil. And this year, more than anytime in my memory (and I am an old guy) patriotism is running high - and I think that is great.

PS - we had a US flag, and a Canadian flag, on our robot thru the entire event. Would have had a Brazilian one but we couldn't find one.!!!!

[Amy Beth]

fact: everyone in the world is selfish and self-centered (go ahead...try to debate me on that one)

so americans are self-centered....so what else is new?

[srawls]

this may be a little off topic, but was anyone else there for the fireworks at the team party, when the crowd sang the national anthem together. i heard it start, put my hand over my heart, and started singing. i was surprised how well i knew the words, having never really sung it before. that, for me, was the highlight of the otherwise dull team party, so i thought i'd see what other people thought.

Stephen

[Kyle Hill]

I think it'd be really good if Brendon or Mike could make this entire thread go poof and disappear. Eh?

A quick summary of what happened here, if you're joining this late.

1- Someone in a foul mood posted a winded rant about various grievances, both percieved and real, he had, especially about a bias FIRST may or may not have towards international teams.

2- Several patriotic Americans stood up and defended their country.

3- FLAME WAR!! oi.

As both an American citizen and a Canadian by heritage, please, just stop arguing over this. It's like debating which side of the Mississippi is better; there's very little difference between the two countries at all. Were we debating the merits of fascism or communism, you could say there was a great chasm, but at this point the debate comes down a contest between the Sacajawea and the Twoonie.

Chill out. Do I happen to agree with America's current foreign policy? No. Would it matter if I did? Not really, seeing as how this is a message board about a high school robotics competition.

Yes, FIRST used to have the "US" prefix, yes, a lot of veteran teams and people still refer to it as that. Just like we still refer to the Championship as "Nationals" and most likely forever will.

Yes, having things go through Customs and such is difficult, especially after the 9-11 crisis, but just imagine what the Brazilian team has to go through, I'm sure its quite worse. What exactly can be done about the matter, anyway?

I'm sorry if anyone has a problem with Americana - and don't worry, I occasionally do as well - but here is the least appropriate place to vent such frustrations that I can imagine.

Can't we all just get along?

[Allalan]

Truth be told, being Canadian, I find that I don't know much about America that isn't negative. All I hear about are the bad things, and I understand that I can't make a judgement on Americans without learning more about them, but why do I only hear the bad things? Why do I hear that American troops have killed 4 of our soldiers, reasons unknown, that America, although a great help to the world, only gives out under 1 percent of their GNP, while Norway donates over 9? I think what non-Americans see is a lot of negative stuff, and we wonder why the American people don't correct this. Why do they let, quite frankly, bad politicians run their country? America has the potential to be so much more than what they are, or at least what we see.

And regarding FIRST, they HAVE officially changed their name and dropped the US (so I'm informed), but why the pervading Americaness? I understand that it was originally an American thing, but it's NOT anymore, and being a sensitive person, i'm sort of hurt that Americans won't acknowledge Canada, or Brazil or England for that matter, as a really important part of FIRST. Why must the underlying Americaness remain? Okay, the competiton started because a group of people thought America needed to boost it's technology level. Who says Canada doesn't need that too? It's not a special American thing, and don't let's get into the brain drain we're experiencing...

[Allalan]

DON"T YOU EVEN DARE SUGGEST THAT AMERICANS AND CANADIANS ARE THE SAME

[DanL]

Please tell me you meant that as trying to bring some humor into this thread...