American "Selectiveness"

[Quain]

Ok.. i think the best way to resolve this isn't to bicker... e-mail their team and let them knows whats going one.. eliminate the problem knot... not the whole strand of rope...

[Joe Matt]

Ok, how did we go from US FIRST to American Government Consperiacy? I think I got lost with my punie american brain .

You see, we live in AMERICA! You visited AMERICA for FIRST. We wave flags in AMERICA. You waves flags in CANADA. They also wave flags in BRITIAN, BRAZIL, and countless other contires. Would you rather go to Palistine, India, or Somolia and see their patriotism? How about draging of innocent citizens. Killing of children. The massacer of the elderly. Do you like that? Disney is a surprisingly Patriotic place with lots of american roots and illiterations. So if you don't like it, do something american, don't go to it. Wow, such a hard concept. Don't give them your company. Spend your money somewhere else.

Go to chat......

[Kris Verdeyen]

Originally posted by Quain
Ok.. i think the best way to resolve this isn't to bicker... e-mail their team and let them knows whats going one.. eliminate the problem knot... not the whole strand of rope...

He's allowed his opinion. He may be wrong, but he's allowed to express his opinion.

[Wolfe]

I like Americans too. They are generally nice people with a few exceptions. Like New York. (kidding. Hockey playoff reference. Go leafs go)

Good point Scottie. I guess that remark was out of line. I just found the anthem annoying. Form a musical point of view. I hate when Canadian singers mess with O Canada as well.

And sunny and joseph. I'm not angry. i don't want to get even. I don't hate you, or Americans in general. I'm pointing out what I think is a problem in an attempt to get some dialogue going. If you don't like that. Stop reading and posting.

As far as the flag goes here is my problem with it. When a disaster strikes in America, the media and therefore the majority of people just rally around the flag. I honestly saw more American flags in one day at the competition than I do Canadian ones in a month in Canada! Really not being sarcastic here. The idea is that patriotism is equivalent to flag waving. That’s a very simple minded approach. The other idea is that after 9/11 criticizing the government is akin to supporting terrorists. That more than wrong. That’s dangerous. At an important time the government should be criticized more than ever! Without dialogue, government messages become propaganda.

[Sunny Thaper]

Hell, I am actually Indian from India. I don't care if you are angry or not I am just pointing out that just talking about it won't help the problem go away. Sorry if it sounded like I was try to throw you back in your place or anything. I actually just don't want you to think that we don't care.

[Clark Gilbert]

The American Flag is probably the most popular thing in the USA.

I bet you can find one at almost any building (all schools/large companies) and many many houses have them...

The flag is what America is "based" around and overall its not increased much after 9/11 excpet for the usage of flags on cars (anyone else notice that?)


It's just a way of symbolizing America and our "ways"



It's also an object that every from the USA can "gather around together" when something happens (ex. important person passes away or a person from the community or when something tragic happens)

[XRaVeNX]

Originally posted by kane


Yes you are allowed to express your opnions but don't flame another country, I'll adimt i don't really like my govermnent, i don't agree with a lot of the laws, but it doesn't really give the citizen of another country the right to bash it, Go to chat.

Well, Wolfe never actually "bashed" the States in his previous posts. If he were to "bash", he would be hating all Americans, pointing out everything bad about Americans.

Also, although this board is 90% Americans, it doesn't make it wrong that we can't express ourselves. I admit that he used some inappropriate language but in general, he was just expressing his thoughts and observations.

As Wolfe said, us Canadians don't hate Americans. We are up here, in the north, and because we are NOT Americans, we have a unique perspective on Americans. There is nothing wrong with patriotism but when you start neglecting other countries' achievements, it makes you ignorant. FIRST is trying to become an international competition. And I think American teams should take note and respect FIRST's efforts at trying to globalization.

If people can't look past their borders, and see that humanity is a whole and not separate parts, we will never succeed.

[kane]

Originally posted by XRaVeNX


Well, Wolfe never actually "bashed" the States in his previous posts. If he were to "bash", he would be hating all Americans, pointing out everything bad about Americans.

Also, although this board is 90% Americans, it doesn't make it wrong that we can't express ourselves. I admit that he used some inappropriate language but in general, he was just expressing his thoughts and observations.

As Wolfe said, us Canadians don't hate Americans. We are up here, in the north, and because we are NOT Americans, we have a unique perspective on Americans. There is nothing wrong with patriotism but when you start neglecting other countries' achievements, it makes you ignorant. FIRST is trying to become an international competition. And I think American teams should take note and respect FIRST's efforts at trying to globalization.

If people can't look past their borders, and see that humanity is a whole and not separate parts, we will never succeed.

By any chance are you xxx-Raven-xxx on danimation.com?


Okay i never said he couldn't express his opnions, feel free to. I don't really care what you think of my country, you don't experience it like i do. The people aren't like the sterotype. Yes we do need to look past our borders but thats two ways just because you think you know americans doesn't mean you do. FIRST didin't ignore the canadian regional, were you listenting to any part of the opeing ceremonies? they made a big thing of it there.

[XRaVeNX]

No, I'm not xxx-Raven-xxx.

I never said we "know" Americans. I am just saying that we have a unique perspective. I ask you this: How many people are good at critizing themselves? Probably not many. And especially when a country tries to critize itself. It is difficult to "bash" yourself.

It is much easier to praise your own country. And in doing so, sometimes, many forget that OTHER people might be right.

I know they did mention the regional competitions outside of the US. What I was hoping was that they would recognize the people that started these regionals outside the US. Imagine the amount of work, organization, effort, and time used to do this. I think that the organizers of each of these regionals should be recognize especially since this is the first time this has been done.

For example, I'm impressed that teams from England and Brazil were able to attend and I would have wanted to know who organized them. But instead, they only mentioned it saying "yes, we did have teams outside the US here."

[Wolfe]

Really we are talking about 3 different things here.
- Canadian support and recognition at FIRST (or lack thereof)
- American patriotism in FIRST and outside
- Hockey

The first topic seems to have died out. It really was what this thread was supposed to be aboot. If you look at the work done by team 188 and the Canadians at the regional it is truly outstanding and worthy of being mentioned. The recognition of international teams was very weak at best.

The second topic is really what people are getting angry about. What I am saying is that the level of patriotism in America is at such a high level that criticism of the government in the media and by people no longer occurs. People should be incredibly skeptical and critical of their government ALWAYS. And there’s a lot to be critical about!

The third topic we haven’t really talked about as much as it deserves. Leafs are going all the way. Islanders suck.

I am not:
Bashing the American PEOPLE
Saying I hate Americans
Saying I hate America
Saying Americans are stupid
Saying Americans are inferior
Saying America is inferior
Saying Americans are all a certain way

[AdamT]

They called is US FIRST....that is/was the name of the organization....ever notice how you go to www.usfirst.org ??

So, it's a habit for someone who has been involved with this program longer then you probably have known about it to call it that....oh well....

[157#1Driver]

I think that if you have a problem like this, Wolfe, bring it up to the people at FIRST. These forums are for fun and for some people for useful for information, not for critizing other countries. I think you should just stop and think about what is going on and talk to FIRST about it. They are always welcome to hear what you have to say. Most people here aren't. Just a little word to the wize.

[Joe Matt]

OK, what were you trying to point out? That we are diffrent than Canadians? Wow, we didn't know that already...

We grew up diffrently, do stuff diffrently, and we have tons of flags around. Pre and Post 9-11, we had lots. Its not that we duct tape them to your face and blared the american anthem in your ears 24/7. We sang the anthem with a flag, just like canada.

As for our polocies, what has Canada recenly done? We are movers and shakers, we change the world for humanity. We have diffrent views, yes, so leave it at that.

[Justin 188]

Originally posted by verdeyw
"This year there was an amazing expansion of FIRST in Canada. It went from 3 teams last year to 26 teams and a new regional! Canadian teams went from 0 awards in all other years to 13 awards! .... Why wasn't any of this mentioned? This is some really amazing stuff!"

Mentioned where? Lots of teams have great stories to tell. So they tell them here, on the CD forums, or they tell them in a Chairman's award presentation, or they'll tell them to a Judge when he or she comes by to interview them about their efforts in the competition.

I think the whole "mentioned where" thing is exactly what Wolfe is getting at. While teams may mention it (heck, my team got the regional Chairman's Award for it), it is slightly disappointing that FIRST does not. They like to talk about significant expansion and growth of FIRST, but selectively. I'm not trying to make people feel bad or hostile (and I'm sure that isn't Wolfe's intention either), but currently, that's the reality of it. Most people simply don't realize it until it actually affects them.

[Wolfe]

First of all. I understand that US FIRST name mistake now. Really that makes sense and it’s a forgivable mistake. However calling all the teams Americans is something different. It’s not just a name

The thing is not that American patriotism annoys be extensively. It does a bit, but that’s personal and irrelevant. The point is that patriotism gets in the way of the public doing a good job of criticizing the government. Doesn’t anyone have any thoughts on this that have nothing to do with Canadians? I’m interested to know what people think.

Also about first reconizing Canadian acheivements.

So. You guys think the Leafs will sweep the Sens like last year?