here's another question, Do you like rap music?

[Judy]

Good ol' Nirvana! hehe.. I personally can't stand rap at all. I think it perpetuates a negative vibe and image, not to say that negative music isn't good- I like the dark depressing rock... but it isn't music as we have already established.... Now I know that this is going to make major waves, but we actually touched on this at my lunch table today in this very odd, long and involved conversation... Some of us came to generalized conclusion(I'm saying generalized so i don't step on too many toes, i know there are exceptions..)
When a white person makes fun of/ discriminates against/ bad mouths a black person, it's racism... when a black person does the same to a white, it's rap.
We all know that half - or more, of the things major rap artists say are completely out of line. And we realized at lunch today(this part wasnt even close to the original debate) that a lot of rap makes racist comments to whites, after all, contrary to popular belief, racism works both ways. I have a big beef (funny term considering I dont eat red meat) with discrimination and all that. I hate how everyone uses their differences to cause problems, like in the Middle East. I don't understand how people can't say, k, this is what I'm about, this is what you're about, and there is no reason why we have to agree.
Ok.. wow, that's a lot of typing... umm.. I'm done for now...
*hugz to all as alwayz*
Ann-Marie -team 783
PS. I'm sorry if I've offened.. well, .... everyone. Really sorry, had to say it... K, I'm really done now, i swear..

[Scottie2Hottie]

I would say that rap music is not so harmful or racist towards white people as often as it is harmful to the race that creates it. I have no problem with black people in general. But, I do have a problem with black people who discriminate against themselves. The blacks worked so very hard during the 60's to gain respect for themselves. What I see now is kids that walk around my school with the gangsta mentality dispite the fact that they live in a middle class society. They live in $250000 houses, their parents are succesful businessmen, they've been given all the opportunity in the world, and they have thrown it in the garbage. The people that worked so hard to gain everybody's respect, the people who were sprayed with fire hoses, the people who were beaten by the police, the people whom I deeply respect died so their children and their children's children would have respect and opportunity have been thwarted forty years later by the people they were trying to help. It's something that upsets me immensely.

just my $.02

[Maikettei]

I didnt vote on this poll. I don't hate rap, and I can listen to it sometimes, but its not my preference. This is mainly because I am not a lyric based person. But I did want to contribute to this...

I think a lot of people hear mainstream MTV type rap and pigeon-hole the whole genre. Just as many people do not consider Sum 41 and Blink 182 as punk bands because they are so overproduced and marketed, the same is for a lot of the mainstream rappers. Just because they are marketed as a great part of that genre doesn't mean its giving that genre justice.

Also, I wanted to clear one thing up... hip-hop is a culture, rap is the music that comes from that culture. Just like rave culture and electronica. No one calls electronic music 'rave' music.

I will not debate over wether rap is music or not, but you cannot deny that when it is done correctly... keyword: correctly... it is art. Because if it isn't art, then what is poetry?

People should really take the time to learn about things before they start to bash them. Even if you do not like something, you should at least respect it.


Oh and I should add. I have to agree with this:

Originally posted by Scottie2Hottie
What I see now is kids that walk around my school with the gangsta mentality dispite the fact that they live in a middle class society. They live in $250000 houses, their parents are succesful businessmen, they've been given all the opportunity in the world, and they have thrown it in the garbage.

It really disappoints me when I see so many people get sucked into complacence because its popular culture. I've never understood the need to be the 'thug-type' myself... but its what is popular, and for the most part, kids do whatever they have to to get that popularity...

[Maikettei]

Originally posted by Michael Murphy
Rap is not music. To be music, it has to be played instrumentally. I respect rap as an art form, but it's not music. Not a fan. Give me oldies anyday!

I said I wasn't going to defend rap being music... but what the hey... I love intelligent debates.

mu·sic Pronunciation Key (myzk)
n.
The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre.
Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.

A musical composition.
The written or printed score for such a composition.
Such scores considered as a group: We keep our music in a stack near the piano.
A musical accompaniment.
A particular category or kind of music.
An aesthetically pleasing or harmonious sound or combination of sounds: the music of the wind in the pines.



ALSO... when people sing acapella, is it not music because they are not using instruments? At least you agree its an art form though...

[Judy]

I do respect the amount of skill it takes to rap... I personally know I could not, however, I still hate what the 'rap music culture' if you will has done to society. Scottie made an awesome point about all the middle class kids getting all thugged out, I mean you walk around the halls of my school and you wonder... what's the pull? Why are people into wearing their pants so low that it's reminiscent of how convicts had their way over sized pants so they could not escape? Why would you want to be a gangsta? It's odd and I don't really understand. If you're trying to go for the whole bad boy thing, there are other ways to do it.. which I find to look much better... but that's just me. Whateva, I figure if you want to look like a convict.. there's probably something wrong.. but what do I know? meh...
*hugz to all as alwayz*
Ann-Marie -team 783

[Ben Mitchell]

Originally posted by Judy

When a white person makes fun of/ discriminates against/ bad mouths a black person, it's racism... when a black person does the same to a white, it's rap.
We all know that half - or more, of the things major rap artists say are completely out of line. And we realized at lunch today(this part wasnt even close to the original debate) that a lot of rap makes racist comments to whites, after all, contrary to popular belief, racism works both ways.

*hugz to all as alwayz*
Ann-Marie -team 783

PS. I'm sorry if I've offened.. well, .... everyone. Really sorry, had to say it... K, I'm really done now, i swear..

Why should you apologize: you're saying the truth of the matter. Rap music's increasing popularity has led to a bizarre trend in middle class kids. I know at my school, too, they're are kids who go home to houses worth 1/2 million dollars, and dress up like they were poor, living in a slum, and talk like they be from the ghetto.

Not only is it ridiculous, it's disturbing. And the double standard of racism is becoming more and more acceptable: NAACP versus the first amendment in South Carolina, is one example. Rappers have the right to use words I, begin white, can't whisper in public, yet they want to tear down a confedrate flag???!!

1st amendment all the way. "Heritage, not hatred!"

[Scottie2Hottie]

oh yes, I forgot to link my post back to the main topic of the thread. *pretend like there was no gap* And quite frankly, I don't think thats a mentality FIRST should be promoting.

p.s. I'm glad I'm not the only person who noticed this and am not alone in my opinions

[Judy]

K, I just got extremely confused.... you weren't.. endorsing the... GAP... were u??
*hugz to all as alwayz*
Ann-Marie -team 783

[Quain]

One day kids will realize that being "thug" and jail are not cool... and that looking trashy isn't "cool" either... but this is coming from the kid with 2 different colors in his hair and clothes big enough to fit 3 people... but hey.. the counter-culture are different.. *grin*

[fast frank]

i completely agree with scottie and judy and what the others have said too. i have no problem with black people in general, it's just the one's that hurt their own race that get on my nerves. their ancestors fought so hard and sacrificed so much, and they're just throwing it away. i don't want to sound like a racist or anything, but i think i should bring up something that really bothers me, the whole hate-crime issue. if i go out and shot a black guy, i would recieve a worse sentence than if a black guy shot me. that's like saying that i (being a white male) am worth less as human being than an afro-american. i also get mad that they use words in almost every sentence that i can't say ever without getting in trouble. as for the middle class dressing and acting like they're from the ghetto, that's just stupid, rediculous, and counter productive. like i said before, i'm not a racist, i'm just really confused why they do this to them selves.

as you can probably guess, i hate rap

[Maikettei]

Originally posted by Judy
Scottie made an awesome point about all the middle class kids getting all thugged out, I mean you walk around the halls of my school and you wonder... what's the pull? Why are people into wearing their pants so low that it's reminiscent of how convicts had their way over sized pants so they could not escape? Why would you want to be a gangsta? It's odd and I don't really understand. If you're trying to go for the whole bad boy thing, there are other ways to do it.. which I find to look much better... but that's just me. Whateva, I figure if you want to look like a convict.. there's probably something wrong.. but what do I know? meh...

You know... that is REALLY screwed up. Dressing in Urban clothing should not make ANYONE look like a convict. And to blame rap music for what is wrong with society is total crap.

Punks, Goths, and Ravers don't exactly look like people from Corporate America either, and I'm sure you guys don't go around calling them convicts. They also don't have the best reputations... ravers with the ecstacy, punks with their utter disregard for order, goths being satanistic. These are all generalizations that do not encompass these entire cultures. If you think it is wrong to judge any of these groups, than its also wrong to judge people who embrace hip-hop culture.

Also, I think Ben mentioned something about thugs looking like they are poor. I am REALLY offended by that... those clothes are just as expensive as your average Abercrombie and Hollister type clothes, and unless they are dirty and ripped clothes, I do not see how you can look poor. If you are stereotyping people who wear urban clothing that is racism/prejudice at its worst... because you don't even realize you are doing it.

And those are my $.02.

[Judy]

Here we go... I know this was coming.. people are starting to get really offened now, myself included...
alright, now, lemme explain the convict thing... cause many people may not understand that pants that are that low do stem from convicts... way back they used to put them in really huge clothes so that when they tried to escape they'd have trouble running... I mean I can understand if a guy wants more 'space' but when they're down really really low, it looks horrible, and it drives me crazy.. esp. when I have to see their boxers all the time because of it... I'm sorry, pants were made to cover your postierier, not to sit right under it.... The clothing 'should' not make anyone look like a convict, but the truth is, in my opinion, that it does.
Ok. Now I know you're just trying to prove a point by showing other sterotypes, but I take extreme offense to the saying of goths being satanists... being goth and having many goth friends, we all find this extremely offensive and absurd.. at least with the whole 'urban' convict connection there is basis on the masses, with 'gothic satanists' there was maybe a few instances that have been exaggerated in a massive hatred to the group. we all know goths get it pretty bad(not to say i do I dont, but the media and such does give a very negative image) Having been called down to guidance at my school with them insinuating I run a satanic cult recently, I found this disturbing.... I mean, what kind of a world is it when people think goths are satanists when the large majority arent.. in fact the reason i dress this way is to see if people will take the time to get to know the real me.. cause if they judge me.. say as a satanist, they so arent worth it! And then there's the whole aspect of religious beliefs, I will personally say i have some contraversal ones... and my belief system states there is no 'devil' or satan... so how am I a satanist?! ugh!!!!!!!!! Society is messed up!
So anywayz, I'm going to stop now cause I'm just getting more and more angry... point being: Is it really a sterotype when it seems that the masses give it some real basis?
They really do look like it to me.
*hugz to all as alwayz*
Ann-Marie -team 783
PS. I think I might have ruffled some feathers, *sigh* Oh well, I'll always give more than my share of 2cents.

[srawls]

Well, Ann, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying they look like convicts. Now, saying all people that dress like that are convicts, that's stereotyping, but you're not doing that.

Stephen, just trying to help

[Ben Mitchell]

I did'nt say the clothes were inexpensive, but it does make them look..well...

as for "urban clothing" --kids get in trouble for wearing confedrate flags on their clothing, kids get in trouble for wearing trenchcoats after school shootings. Why should these students have their first amendent rights suspended in an unconstitutional school rule, while gansta people are allowed to wear baggy clothes - perfect for smuggling drugs and weapons, and other clothing which is designed to promote a lower quality of life.

Just listen to any rape song: does it treat men and women equally? Blacks and whites? Does it promote drug use, prostitution, and other unethical practices.

I beleive you CAN blame rap, in part, for some of societies problems. The lyrics of rap music, by a great majority, promote racism against white people (ME!), as well as voilence, most notable agianst women and police officers. Also condoned are
drug use, prostitution, and other illegal activities.

The fact is, you can't have entire generations of little kids, hitting maybe 6, 7, 8, 9th grade now, believing this stuff, dressing up like the rap video's on MTV, beleiving every bit. They young kids esp. are being poisoned by this stuff.

Just my piece, more than 2 cents, though.

[Maikettei]

Originally posted by fast frank
i don't want to sound like a racist or anything, but i think i should bring up something that really bothers me, the whole hate-crime issue. if i go out and shot a black guy, i would recieve a worse sentence than if a black guy shot me.

Actually, you could probably shoot a black man and hardly get any time. Especially if you are a police officer. The only way you would get a really bad sentence is if they decided it was a hate crime.

Originally posted by fast frank
i also get mad that they use words in almost every sentence that i can't say ever without getting in trouble.

The N-word issue is very sensitive... black people can say it because when it comes from a black person it doesn't feel like rascism... Its the same as being able to joke around with your closest friends about things. Or even if you always complain to people about your family... you can talk about your family all you want, but you get offended when someone comes out and says your mom laughs like a horse.

Originally posted by fast frank
like i said before, i'm not a racist, i'm just really confused why they do this to them selves.

Why people do what to themselves? Like Urban clothes? Listen to hip-hop? Speak a type of slang or a different dialect around their friends than people speak in the suburbs? People shouldn't have to conform to what Corporate America defines as correct in order to be treated equally. You are basically saying getting rid of hip-hop culture would be a step up for black people... like hip-hop culture is somehow not as good as any other culture.