2005 FRC Team Update 13

[dez250]

The 2005 FRC Team Update 13 is now available on the Team Updates page or directly at Team Update 13

This is just a friendly reminder also to expect Team Updates to be released on Tuesdays by 5pm and Fridays by 10am and also when needed immediately. For faster answers to direct questions you may have on rules please use the FIRST Q&A System.

[JohnBoucher]

Nice to see this update. It clarifies a lot of my questions.

[Goobergunch]

Quite a few interesting things in this update.

With the special notice, did they mean the operator radio, the robot radio, or both? I assume that they just mean the operator radio (it would be a hassle to be quickly replacing the mounted robot radio right before a match), but it's marginally unclear.

Also, I see that FIRST has remedied the qualifier match scheduling algorithm issue which I was just reading a thread about a few days ago. I'm glad to see that we'll be playing with and against a broader variety of teams this year, rather than the same teams over and over again!

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Goobergunch

Quite a few interesting things in this update.

With the special notice, did they mean the operator radio, the robot radio, or both? I assume that they just mean the operator radio (it would be a hassle to be quickly replacing the mounted robot radio right before a match), but it's marginally unclear.

Also, I see that FIRST has remedied the qualifier match scheduling algorithm issue which I was just reading a thread about a few days ago. I'm glad to see that we'll be playing with and against a broader variety of teams this year, rather than the same teams over and over again!

They mean the radio attached to your operator interface

[Elgin Clock]

Your radio that attaches to your controls at the station is no longer needed (in the station that is - bring it to the event)*. They have this really spiffy looking tower for all 6 radios of each side, and one radio for the field set up at the corner of the field.

I have to grab a good image of it from the camcorder, and then I will upload it to CD, and post a link here.



*Actually, you may not even need to bring your OI radio at all, since you have to tether in the pit. Maybe a sign of things to come next year?
Bring it anyways, you never know when you are going to need it.

[Conor Ryan]

did you see the part about match scheduling?

IMPORTANT INFORMATION on: Match scheduling
In the game of Triple Play, because there are 6 teams on the field at once, the scheduling of matches is significantly more difficult. In addition, in previous years we have noticed that there have been cases where a team may not be on the field with one team at all, but encounter another multiple times. In order to maximize your exposure to other teams, we have implemented a new match-scheduling algorithm. While this algorithm has significantly improved performance, it does allow some matches to be scheduled relatively close together. There may be cases where your team has a match that is 12 minutes after the end your previous match. Please make sure your robot and drivers can be ready to play in this time interval. Although 12 minutes may seem like a short time, if you are fortunate enough to make it to the finals, you will have only 4 minutes to be ready to play again. Also note that 12 minutes is a minimum. In general your recovery time between matches will be much longer.

Good to know for strategy. And props to whoever made the algorithm.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

They have this really spiffy looking tower for all 6 radios of each side, and one radio for the field set up at the corner of the field.

I have to grab a good image of it from the camcorder, and then I will upload it to CD, and post a link here.

As promised:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pi...le&picid=10017

[Jeffrafa]

can someone clarify for me, it's seemed unclear from what i understand so far -

Your robot must physically touch (wheel or something) the target in front of the loading station to be considered "in" the loading zone, and if you do not you will recieve a penalty for getting a tetra off the tetra loader without being within the loading zone.

Is that correct, or am I misunderstanding something?


Also, this update seemed to state that whatever part touched the target must be within the 28" x 38" robot footprint, not extending out in front of the robot to touch it.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Jeffrafa

can someone clarify for me, it's seemed unclear from what i understand so far -

Your robot must physically touch (wheel or something) the target in front of the loading station to be considered "in" the loading zone, and if you do not you will recieve a penalty for getting a tetra off the tetra loader without being within the loading zone.

Is that correct, or am I misunderstanding something?


Also, this update seemed to state that whatever part touched the target must be within the 28" x 38" robot footprint, not extending out in front of the robot to touch it.

That is correct, given my understanding of the rules.

It's also mildly annoying, as I had the plans all laid out for a flyswatter on a servo at Palmetto. I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles--or is it the way the tetra stacks?

[Yan Wang]

Originally Posted by Billfred

That is correct, given my understanding of the rules.

It's also mildly annoying, as I had the plans all laid out for a flyswatter on a servo at Palmetto. I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles--or is it the way the tetra stacks?

Wait, does that mean that even if a robot is clearly covering almost all of the triangle, it doesn't count as being in unless some part, such as a wheel, is actually touching the triangle? The situation I've described is shown in my quick paint picture attached below. If this is the case, I'm stupified.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Yan Wang

Wait, does that mean that even if a robot is clearly covering almost all of the triangle, it doesn't count as being in unless some part, such as a wheel, is actually touching the triangle? The situation I've described is shown in my quick paint picture attached below. If this is the case, I'm stupified.

You got it. Not one of the brightest rules in my opinion, but there it is. Due to the difficulty of enforcement we suspect further changes will eventually happen but that is the way things are for the present.

Don't worry about it too much, it wouldn't be FIRST if there wasn't a morphing rule now would it?

[AJunx]

I'm most confused regarding the use of the phrase in Q&A ID:1715
"we will allow robot-base appendages that are within and remain within the 28" x 38" dimensions to contact the loading zone and be legal"

What about teams who start the match by dropping onto their "side" or "front" as many teams have done in past years? In doing so, they increase their base dimensions to a potential 60 inches by 38 inches. How on earth are the referees going to know if a wheel that is under a 60 X 38 inch frame is within the 28 X 38 inch dimensions??

Does anyone know how they will be dealing with this?

-Andrew

[russell]

So I got a question almost like the one above, but what the heck. On our robot you cant see the wheels unless your standing pretty much right above the robot. Even if you lie down on the floor from most angles you couldnt see the wheels. Are we just screwed, or will the judges have the common sense to see (or better yet are they allowed to obey common sense? as I am sure all the judges have great common sense otherwise they wouldnt be a judge) that if our robot is on the triangle one of the wheels is probably on it too?

[Collmandoman]

I just wrote a 500 word rant but 'busy server' canceled that abridged version
I understand that safety is paramount to first, which I guess makes sense in having the loading zone location........ dot dot dot.....(although there are several guidelines for the field attendents when replenishing the loaders )..
All of us thought without thinking otherwise that the footprint would suffice as being in the triangle.. having a change that was against .. intuition?.. so late is almost irresponsible.. if FIRST intended for that to be the rule from the get-go.. they should have specified..A normal course of action would be to ammend their previous intentions by allowing what we as a community had believed.. and sense we are all playing with the same rules.. nobody suffers and nobody gains...their solution presently is to either contact with a wheel..(which gives slight problems to robots without turntables) or build something that touches the ground.. which isn't reasonable now with the robots fed-ex'd -- I hope FIRST comes around.. or explains the reason for the rule.. Before you slam the reputation button until your fingers blead give some constructive critisism or thoughts or anything.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

I find nothing wrong with what FIRST has said. And I'd like to commend them for writing such a solid set of rules.
There have only been a few significant changes, and most updates don't have anything about the game in them. Compare it to previous years and you'll appreciate this year.