Is this legal

[Cory]

Originally Posted by amateurrobotguy

I am going to put my foot down and say that it is definitely illegal. Above it was mentioned that it is ok if used as a deterrent. So, logically, I will attach a 50 inch saw blade to my bot, claim it was a deterrent and not be disqualified? "Oh, that blade...well...its just a DECORATION!?". If I get in a match with a bot that looks like that, I will petition the referee to dq them. Even though it probably was not intentional to make it a wedge that can flip , it can be employed to entangle a robot and will make it impossible to block them without having their robot wedged under your bot. It doesn't get any clearer than that. If a bot tries to block that bot, and its motor wheels get elevated off the ground because it ran up the wedge, then it is a clear violation of <G25>Section 4-The Game(Namely, entanglement). Entanglement is defined as preventing movement. If my robot can't move, it is entangled. Even though the non-wedge bot ran into the other bot, it was because of the wedge that the robot got entangled. BUT in a later satement that appends to the above stated rule, it states that entanglement is also part of normal gameplay. A ref would have to prove that the wedge was intentionally used to entangle another bot. I believe that any ref will say that it was intentionally used to entangle bots. Pushing low on a robot is ok, but pushing under(as this robot will most likely do) is not. It is an excellent defensive idea, but it is not in the spirit of FIRST and shouldn't be allowed to play. My philosophy is if it is questionable then don't do it.

Do you know what entanglement means? I'm not sure that you do.

If I block your robot into the corner of the playing field with mine, you can't move. You are not, however, "entangled" with my robot. Entangled would be if you had a net on your bot and my arm gets stuck in it.

To be entangled, your robot has to not be able to break contact with the other robot. if you run into a wedgebot and get stuck on it, it can back up and you'd no longer be physically stuck to it. if you were entangled with it, the wedge bot would back up and you would still be stuck to it, and dragged with it.

Your example of a saw blade is completely irrelevant. Nobody will question that a saw blade is against the spirit of the game, not to mention a violation of every safety rule that exists. A wedge used in a defensive capability is a fantastic strategy. if Wildstang hadn't had their wedge in 2003 would they have been National Champions? Heck no!

As I said before, if a wedge bot is sitting still and another robot drives into it and flips itself or gets stuck, TOO BAD. YOU chose to drive into it.

Absolutely no ref will DQ this bot in a situation that I just described. In fact, you'll find it's a LOT harder than you think to get a DQ for tipping. Robots tip over all the time in very questionable situations--many where it seems obvious they were intentionally tipped, and nothing is called.

Petition all you want, it won't get you anywhere.

And finally, if another "it's illegal" "no it's legal" comment is posted in here, this thread will be closed. This horse has been beaten to death, and then trampled on and beaten again. There are multiple threads about tipping robots and other violations including wedges. If you want to continue discussion there, feel free. Otherwise you guys can stop cutting down Team 11's work.

$0.02

Cory