stealling tetras??????????????

[capof541]

is it illegal to steal tetras from a robot before they cap? i was wondering!

[pedrolives524]

Originally Posted by capof541

is it illegal to steal tetras from a robot before they cap? i was wondering!

i dont know that is a good question

[GoDaisy341]

it's not again's any of the rules

[Amanda M]

It's not exacty illegal, but I wouldn't do it if I were you.
Rule <G25> says (as an example of a way not to interact with another robot)
*Grasping or attaching to a tetra that is in the possession of an opposing robot, and using it to pull over another robot.

But you can try to stop the other team from stacking the tetra. (if you do, I'd be careful)

A ref might just interpret your actions other than what they really are. They might see you trying to hurt the other robot, when you're really just trying to get the tetra. I'd just go with safely finding your own to stack.

[Greg Marra]

Don't forget: even if you manage to steal the enemy tetra, you can't cap with it. It might be most effective to make them drop the tetra so it's only contained or falls out of bounds, especially if their robot is unable to pick up tetras off the ground.

[Kims Robot]

I believe it is legal to steal tetras as long as you don't harm the other robot in the process. We had five of the Finger Lakes Regional Judges at our scrimmage and they watched a match where XCats plucked a tetra off the top of East High's robot without ever touching or harming the robot. They never discussed any penalties regarding that.

I would think that this is something teams wouldnt want to do in qualification, since your score depends on the losing team, so you want them to score... but I can see it happening more often in the actual elimination rounds.

I would say the team has to use their judgement as to how easy it would be to take the tetra without harming the other robot. For example, East's robot had the tetra just stacked on top of a flipper (that flipped the tetras on the goals), so when Xcats grabbed it, it just came right off the top of the robot, without ever interacting with that robot. If they were to try to steal it from a robot that speared or grasped tetras, it might be a different story.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

I believe it is legal to steal tetras as long as you don't harm the other robot in the process. We had five of the Finger Lakes Regional Judges at our scrimmage and they watched a match where XCats plucked a tetra off the top of East High's robot without ever touching or harming the robot. They never discussed any penalties regarding that.

I would think that this is something teams wouldnt want to do in qualification, since your score depends on the losing team, so you want them to score... but I can see it happening more often in the actual elimination rounds.

I would say the team has to use their judgement as to how easy it would be to take the tetra without harming the other robot. For example, East's robot had the tetra just stacked on top of a flipper (that flipped the tetras on the goals), so when Xcats grabbed it, it just came right off the top of the robot, without ever interacting with that robot. If they were to try to steal it from a robot that speared or grasped tetras, it might be a different story.

I thought they were talking about the instance when you guys brought over those blue tetras from the blue alliance in the second video. I thought that was hilarious (as you can hear me chuckle in the background).

[Sachiel7]

Don't forget: even if you manage to steal the enemy tetra, you can't cap with it. It might be most effective to make them drop the tetra so it's only contained or falls out of bounds, especially if their robot is unable to pick up tetras off the ground.

This is not true. You may not want to score them, but you can. In fact, you may want to try and steal your opponents tetras to score them, if they are lacking in overall score. For example, if you have 2 rows, and they almost have 1, you can prevent them from capping that may destroy one of your rows, and use that tetra to form one for them, thus ensuring your win status still, and boosting your possible QP.
In my opinion, you have a much better chance of stealing a tetra from another bot than trying to steal one from an opposing alliance's loading station (possible 30pt penalty).
And since most bots this year loosely hold tetras (at least the ones I've seen) I would not deem it unrealistic to attempt to block and steal them. The rule warning against stealing tetras mainly wants you to avoid stealing them in a way that may immobilize or harm the opposing robot.

We played some defence at the DC scrimmage, and it definatially helped us. Taking the alleged tetra from the person trying to cap probably wouldve furthered our ability in the match as well. Our main issue was time. We just didnt need to do it at the time, we were too busy blocking and capping other goals. However, I can think of a few matches where instead of just blocking the person attempting to cap the center, stealing wouldve been a good play too, because in most cases, they still had the tetra, and proceeded to cap another goal with it.

Alls I have to say is watch out for us...caus we're not holding back...

[Greg Marra]

Originally Posted by Sachiel7

In my opinion, you have a much better chance of stealing a tetra from another bot than trying to steal one from an opposing alliance's loading station (possible 30pt penalty).

I believe that removing the tetra from the opposing alliance's loading station is a ten point penalty anyway.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by Stonefan5271138

Also, it goes against Gracious Professionalism and is also a dirty move.

Since when is playing good defense a "dirty move"? Last year you saw plenty of teams take away a 2X ball that was in the possession of another robot or already atop a goal, and nobody got infuriated about it. It's part of the game. If you don't try to pull the other robot down, you'll get no reputation other than as a team with an agile robot and good strategy. Besides, how much fun would it be if you just got to spend two minutes running around unencumbered? Would pushing another robot out of the way be a "dirty move"?

[Dan-o]

Originally Posted by Stonefan5271138

Also, it goes against Gracious Professionalism and is also a dirty move. Just don't do it if you're in question because not doing it and not getting penalized is better than doing it, getting known for playing dirty, and getting penalized.

Since when is defense Dirty, Ungracious, and/or Unprofessional. When 2 teams play a football game, defense is exactly half the game (not including special teams). This game is no different. If my team's bot is better at defending than your team is at scoring, you should score no points. Likewise, if your bot is defending my team well enough that we don't score, you've accomplished your task, and have helped your alliance gain an upper hand. This is in no way dirty and it certainly (in my book) doesn't go against gracious professionalism.

Think of it this way. in 2003, your team, and your alliance partner are on the ramp. Now your opponents have just gotten done making a stack of 5 and have a ton of bins racking up points. Now, do you do the gracious and professional thing, and not try to prevent them from getting on top of the ramp, EVEN if that was what their bot was designed to do in the first place?

The same thing in 2004, the winning alliance at one time had one of their partners attached to the bar, but was rolling around on the top surface to prevent other teams from grabbing the bar. Another great example of good (and encouraged) defense. I apologize if my ideals are not aligned with those of FIRST robotics, but I really do believe that Dean Kamen would have made another Co-Opertition game if he really wanted to.

With that said, It is only illegal to steal a tetra if you purposely grab ahold of it and pull/push them over. I can imagine many circumstances where a team may have grabbed an opposing tetra before capping, and due to a bad move on the capper's part, the capping robot falls over. I sincerely hope that judges will be diligent enough not to throw a flag on the blocker's tactic. Else, you may see an influx of teams flipping over (almost if it was on purpose) seemingly to frame the blocking robot. I am not saying that any of these strategies have been, or even will be adopted by my team because that certainly isn't the case. All I am trying to do is stand up for the defenders, because they got the same rule book you did, but chose to play the game differently (but well within the rules).

*gets off his soap box*