17 matches per team @ AZ?

[jpsaul7usa]

Using some random calculations based on VCU's schedule, I've estimated that at AZ each team will play every 4.9 rounds. With rounds scheduled every 6 minutes, teams will play about every 4 to 5 rounds, in other words every 24 to 30 minutes. With 8.5 hours of scheduled preliminary rounds, conservatively, that's 17 rounds per team! I wonder if that's what the schedule is really going to look like next week. AZ's first year had ~11matches/team, and that seemed like a lot. I bet the rest of you are wishing you were going to Arizona now. There is an advantage to being small

[SteveO]

That would be awesome to see that many rounds played. Hopefully that means we will get a lot of practice before the Vegas regional

[Don Knight]

Originally Posted by SteveO

That would be awesome to see that many rounds played. Hopefully that means we will get a lot of practice before the Vegas regional

Well Teams will really get "bang" for their "buck" here in Arizona!

Plus awesome weather, (make sure to bring that sunscreen)
PLus a Full audio visual package,
Plus Awesome team social,
Plus Jesse Maguire playing the National Anthem of Friday!
Plus All but four teams in the Finals
and a 1 in 9.3 chance of being the Regional Winner!
Priceless!

[sanddrag]

I can't agree more with all the things Don said above. It is really ashame we won't be there.

Anyhow jpsaul7usa, can you do one of those spiffy calculations for LA? Also, does that include practice or no?

[Alex Cormier]

From Finger lakes we were heading in there estimated ~18 matches. we now have 12 because FIRST doesn't want the team at this regional to have more practice then other teams for other regionals. so be ready to do only around 12. GOOD LUCK! every one needs it this year!

[Kevin Sevcik]

17 matches per team would scare the heck outta me. You do realize you have to queue 2 round in advance, right? You'd get 10 minutes between matches. Constantly. Sometimes even less due to the new pairing algorithm. It'd be like 1.5 days of being in the elims or finals. I don't think our robot or batteries could handle that, personally. Best of luck to y'all if it turns out that way, though.

[jpsaul7usa]

Nuts. If Finger Lakes doesn't get more than 12 then I doubt we will. Oh well, 12's still more than I've ever seen at a match. We're going to be closing early then. Maybe we can schedule breaks every 3 or 4 matches to add some variety to the long periods of time I expect to spend sitting and scouting without relief, or Don's long periods of sitting and announcing from behind the tables. Otherwise we might be finished by lunch each day

Here's how I calculated the rounds (bear with me, I'm taking a stat class this semester and I don't know what's real math anymore )

I took four teams from VCU's schedule of matches and found the average number of matches between the matches they played (as in 9 is the number of matches between matches 1 and 10). I averaged all of those and got 10.82. I then set up a proportion to the number of teams at VCU and AZ. It looked like:
(28)/(62) = (AZ)/10.82... AZ=4.887~4.9 (5) matches between the matches you're playing.

For LA, that works out to 6.63 (6-7) matches between the matches you're playing. Multiply that by 6 minutes/match and you've got 36 minutes-42 minutes between matches, and divide 8.5 hours by those times to get...
14.2 and 12.1 matches total. So if the cap is 12, you'll likely have 12 matches. Hope this helps

[Don Knight]

Originally Posted by Pit Bull 1126

From Finger lakes we were heading in there estimated ~18 matches. we now have 12 because FIRST doesn't want the team at this regional to have more practice then other teams for other regionals. so be ready to do only around 12. GOOD LUCK! every one needs it this year!

IMHO I don't believe FIRST should be capping the number of seeding matches you play, its just the luck of attending lesser attended regional. They should fill the time they allotted.

Is FIRST going to make sure all the regionals have 12 seeding rounds, I think not.

Its like the alliance partnering "the luck of the draw". FIRST shouldn't penalize teams because they can play more matches.

Besides, our Committee didn't raise money to sponsor a regional to have teams not play all they can.

[sanddrag]

I agree with Don. In then end (long run), this will even out the number of teams at each regional because people will hear about the "little regionals that get lots of matches" and go there. I don't think there will be any intentional slowing of the match pacing.

[Uki]

Your really looking at 8 matches per team for the larger regionals, to about 12 for some of the smaller ones. I wouldn't plan on much more then that.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I'm fairly sure limiting to 12 or so matches per team is a mercy rule. As stated above, if you were running 17 per team, then teams would be turning around incredibly quickly. I realize that vets can mostly handle this, but rookies and 2nd year teams will be swamped and will have no time between matches for repair. Thus, I think it's more to keep from utterly demoralizing a team by forcing them to choose between fixing a robot or missing 2 matches.

[jpsaul7usa]

But with 17 matches, missing two isn't nearly as bad as when there's 8. I think if there's time for 17 matches a team, there should be 17. If there's an opportunity for teams to play more, I hope FIRST grants it.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Missing matches is still bad. Teams still won't want to do it.

Plus, it'll still put rookies at a disadvantage to vets with robust robots. Think about it. Most regionals will see 8-9 matches per team. You're asking teams to play two regionals worth of quals and almost definitely some elim matches in the timeframe of a single regional. Playing one regional is typically hard enough on a bot, and then you have time to do maintenance and fix things. By the time you're done with your first regional's worth of quals at AZ, it's a little after lunch on friday and you've got no time tighten those nuts and do the various other little things cause, hey, it's time for yet another match.

Again, I think 17 matches per team would just wear out teams and robots unnecessarily.