Go to Post I continue in FIRST because I'm not looked down upon for not knowing how to do something, but held up because I want to learn. - LemmingBot [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Control System
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-03-2005, 11:06
Josh Hambright's Avatar
Josh Hambright Josh Hambright is offline
{Error Processing Custom Title}
AKA: oneangrydwarf/jtosh
no team (old school gangsta)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,421
Josh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Josh Hambright
Re: Building an arena controller

I put together a white paper on the last day of the build season explaining changing the channel with the 2005 system.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pa...le&paperid=445
__________________
Former 461 Student/Mentor. Former 1272 and 1018 Mentor. Team 1555 Super-Fan.
Science and Engineering Can Open New Doors. --S.E.C.O.N.D.--
=~=!=@= #=$=%=
Co-Founder IndianaFIRST

Share your FIRST photos on Flickr!
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-03-2005, 16:57
cdawzrd's Avatar
cdawzrd cdawzrd is offline
Vice-President of Caffine
AKA: Jonathan
#0619 (CA Robotics)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 63
cdawzrd will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to cdawzrd
Re: Building an arena controller

Well, if we cannot get something setup to act like an arena controller and automatically set the channel, so be it.

To CJO - This is how we were going to do the system:

A laptop with serial port to an IFI robot controller (2004 model). This would be the "arena controller." It would have a little bit of circuitry to hook together the auton mode switches into one digital output and wire the six disable switches to more digital outputs, then have some digital inputs running to a control board with instant disable switches for the six teams. The laptop would be running a program to have serial communication with the IFI controller, telling it when to start a match and when to go autonomous, etc. That would handle the timing. It would also be talking to a custom program on another computer over a network, that computer would be hooked up to the video mix and display the countdown timer and scoreboard.

I am currently working on all three of those programs:
-the display program: 10% done
-the master control program: 0% done
-the IFI-RC master program: 15% done.

Once those get a little closer to public release, I will set up a website somewhere and post them for anyone interested.
__________________
Cdawzrd
>> www.cdawzrd.com <<
>> www.carobotics.org <<
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-03-2005, 18:20
devicenull devicenull is offline
Robot? We need a robot?
no team
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Rookie Year: 1234
Location: n/a
Posts: 359
devicenull is just really nicedevicenull is just really nicedevicenull is just really nicedevicenull is just really nicedevicenull is just really nice
Re: Building an arena controller

Before you wire all the auton switches together, check what happens when the disable AND auton switches are connected. I'm thinking it will disable anyway, but the last thing you want is a robot running around by itself in auto mode with no way of stopping it.

How are you planning on creating the human player pads? We've been interested in building one, but can't really find a way. Wiring its no problem though.
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-03-2005, 18:38
Dave Flowerday Dave Flowerday is offline
Software Engineer
VRC #0111 (Wildstang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: North Barrington, IL
Posts: 1,366
Dave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Building an arena controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by devicenull
How are you planning on creating the human player pads? We've been interested in building one, but can't really find a way.
We simulated the human player pads at a pre-ship competition we held using some dead-man's switches. Basically, a momentary switch that is normally-closed (turned ON) unless you press it, then it opens up. We placed the switches where the pads should have been. This way, the HP has to hold the switch down for their robot to stay enabled, and when they let go to go deliver a tetra their robot is automatically disabled. It worked really well.
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-03-2005, 20:28
steven114 steven114 is offline
Programming Wizard and Team Captain
AKA: Steven Schlansker
FRC #0114 (Eaglestrike)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Los Altos, CA
Posts: 335
steven114 is a jewel in the roughsteven114 is a jewel in the roughsteven114 is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via AIM to steven114
Re: Building an arena controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by devicenull
Before you wire all the auton switches together, check what happens when the disable AND auton switches are connected. I'm thinking it will disable anyway, but the last thing you want is a robot running around by itself in auto mode with no way of stopping it.
IIRC, it does exactly what you would expect - runs autonomous mode but does not move.
__________________
Shift to the left, shift to the right!
Pop up, push down, byte, byte, byte!
  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-03-2005, 20:41
cdawzrd's Avatar
cdawzrd cdawzrd is offline
Vice-President of Caffine
AKA: Jonathan
#0619 (CA Robotics)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 63
cdawzrd will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to cdawzrd
Re: Building an arena controller

The controller will operate the field the same way the IFI stuff does--keep the robots disabled until the match is started, then enable autonomous mode. Disable does prevent auton mode from doing anything, as it affects the master controller in addition to the user processor, but that won't be an issue.

Also, each individual station will be controllable in terms of disabling robots before or during the game. We will have e-stop buttons and disable switches on the master controller to disable robots for hazards or violations.

You can build floor mats with a little floor mat, a piece of plexi or aluminum to cover the bottom (insulate the metal though) and some strips of metal. Glue one strip to the bottom of the mat, then one stripto the underlying material (wood/plexi/insulated metal). These wires go out to connectors to the RC dig ins on the master controller. Then, you put strips of nonconductive material around the conductive strips, springy stuff like folded pieces of cardboard or something else that is springy but low-profile.

I have tested the mat idea before for use in a haunted house :-D it works. We will probably have overrides in case the mats fail during a match.
__________________
Cdawzrd
>> www.cdawzrd.com <<
>> www.carobotics.org <<
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2005, 15:42
ConKbot of Doom ConKbot of Doom is offline
Team Alumni
FRC #1184 (Cobra Robotics)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 153
ConKbot of Doom has a spectacular aura aboutConKbot of Doom has a spectacular aura aboutConKbot of Doom has a spectacular aura about
Re: Building an arena controller

Anyone with an OI open, could you try to hook the microprocessor up to a programmer with ICSP (in circuit serial programming) capability, then try to read the hex off of the chip. I know that the guys at IFI are probably smart enough to use code protection, but it might be worth a shot. Then just disassemble the hex to get the assembly. Might not be super helpful to have the assembly, but it would be better than nothing.

Just my thought...
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2005, 17:01
cdawzrd's Avatar
cdawzrd cdawzrd is offline
Vice-President of Caffine
AKA: Jonathan
#0619 (CA Robotics)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 63
cdawzrd will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to cdawzrd
Re: Building an arena controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConKbot of Doom
Anyone with an OI open, could you try to hook the microprocessor up to a programmer with ICSP (in circuit serial programming) capability, then try to read the hex off of the chip. I know that the guys at IFI are probably smart enough to use code protection, but it might be worth a shot. Then just disassemble the hex to get the assembly. Might not be super helpful to have the assembly, but it would be better than nothing.
Two reasons why I won't do that:

1) reverse-engineering the OI would probably get IFI people pissed more quickly than just messing with it

2) I am the only person working on this for now, and not being a genius programmer, have no clue how to take assembly code and figure out serial data structure from it...
__________________
Cdawzrd
>> www.cdawzrd.com <<
>> www.carobotics.org <<
  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-03-2005, 23:48
Mike Hendricks Mike Hendricks is offline
misses his IFI control system
FRC #0973 (GRR)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA
Posts: 237
Mike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to all
Re: IFI Secrets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Anderson
Are you sure about that? The channel selection is in none of the documentation I have found. In fact, the competition port pinout guide explicitly states that connecting to any pins other than the four called out (ground, disable, autonomous, and practice) will void the OI warranty.
The practice switch enables you to use that row of 4 switches to change the channel. Check the OI manual for the channel settings.

Edit -

Some channels will go blue, others will go red. Just keep trying different channels on the OI until you get the color you want (it seems like the first 2 or 3 were red and the rest were blue .. or was it the other way around .. )
__________________
2004-2010: Founding Member, Technical Mentor - Team 1388, Eagle Robotics
2011: ???
  #25   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-03-2005, 08:59
cdawzrd's Avatar
cdawzrd cdawzrd is offline
Vice-President of Caffine
AKA: Jonathan
#0619 (CA Robotics)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 63
cdawzrd will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to cdawzrd
Re: IFI Secrets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatMike
The practice switch enables you to use that row of 4 switches to change the channel. Check the OI manual for the channel settings.

Edit -

Some channels will go blue, others will go red. Just keep trying different channels on the OI until you get the color you want (it seems like the first 2 or 3 were red and the rest were blue .. or was it the other way around .. )
The practice switch doesn't do anything with new OI's... you just have to have the team number > 2048 (MSB set). I had also thought that I remembered there being an uneven number of colors, like 4 red and 2 blue or something. I read something on it but I can't find it anymore... does anyone have a link to where IFI said what channels produce what colors?
__________________
Cdawzrd
>> www.cdawzrd.com <<
>> www.carobotics.org <<
  #26   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-03-2005, 11:01
Alan Anderson's Avatar
Alan Anderson Alan Anderson is offline
Software Architect
FRC #0045 (TechnoKats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 9,113
Alan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: IFI Secrets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatMike
The practice switch enables you to use that row of 4 switches to change the channel. Check the OI manual for the channel settings.
miketwalker was talking about using the competition port pins to set the channel, not the OI dip switches. The 2005 OI doesn't use the practice pin anyway; the documentation I can find says that the channel select switches are always active. (That's not exactly true; you have to set the team number's high bit before you can escape channel 40.)
  #27   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-03-2005, 12:52
Mike Hendricks Mike Hendricks is offline
misses his IFI control system
FRC #0973 (GRR)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA
Posts: 237
Mike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to all
Re: Building an arena controller

Hmm .. I wonder why they stoped using the practice pin. My fault on spreading wrong info .. I know we used the practice pin last year without any problem .. and since the RC/OI sets are almost the same .. I figured there wouldnt be any problem.

Heres the offical word from IFI

http://www.ifirobotics.com/forum/vie...f3520b b85074

http://ifirobotics.com/docs/oi-ref-guide-2-21-05.pdf - Page 16 lists the channels and the switches you need to set. It doesnt say the colors however.
__________________
2004-2010: Founding Member, Technical Mentor - Team 1388, Eagle Robotics
2011: ???
  #28   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-03-2005, 00:16
CJO's Avatar
CJO CJO is offline
Emeritus Pain in the $@#$@#$@#
AKA: Christopher J. O'Connell
None #1097 (Site 3 Engineering)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Latrobe (over the rainbow), CA
Posts: 217
CJO will become famous soon enoughCJO will become famous soon enough
Re: Building an arena controller

I built a field controller based on the edu controller. What pin on the competition port is the e-stop? In order to effectivly control the units, i hooked the power supply up to a relay, and used Kevin Watson's ttl interface to control the system from a laptop. It was an arena controller uber ghetto edition, but it worked. I talked to one of the IFI people. They are somewhat touchy about the chanell changing, however, I think that they might be willing to release the e-stop and disable ports, because of the safety issue related to running a scrimage w/o e-stop and using powerdown to disable.

Finally a note on the field controller. Hatch chose to create a system this year in which there was no hardware control panel. As a result the official field had as long as 2 sec latency between a robot disable, and the actual robot disable.
__________________
Team 1097 -- Site 3 Engineering
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2003 Sacramento Rookie All Star
2003 Silicon Valley Rookie All Star
2004 Sacramento Engineering Inspiration Award
2004 Sacramento Visualization Award
2004 Outstanding Volunteer Award (G. Glasser)
2004 Silicon Valley Sportsmanship Award
2004 National Visualization Runner Up
2004 Cal Games Finalist
2005 Sacramento Sportsmanship Award
2005 Sacramento #1 seed
2005 Sacramento Finalist

2005 Silicon Valley Sportsmanship Award
2005 Silicon Valley #1 Seed
2005 Silicon Valley Finalist

  #29   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-03-2005, 00:26
Mike Hendricks Mike Hendricks is offline
misses his IFI control system
FRC #0973 (GRR)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA
Posts: 237
Mike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to allMike Hendricks is a name known to all
Re: Building an arena controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJO
I think that they might be willing to release the e-stop and disable ports, because of the safety issue related to running a scrimage w/o e-stop and using powerdown to disable.

Finally a note on the field controller. Hatch chose to create a system this year in which there was no hardware control panel. As a result the official field had as long as 2 sec latency between a robot disable, and the actual robot disable.
Intresting. I thought that the e-stop was just a disable button for the drivers. I doubt they would use another pin for the e-stop when they could just use the disable pin. I'm not sure thou. Might be something to ask the IFI people if such a pin even exists.

As for the latency, I recall seeing that. Following the auton, it seems like there was a long delay (well .. a couple of seconds) between the human control sound playing, and the humans actually gaining control. At Sac, I also remember seeing a robot not getting disabled when the human player jumped off the pressure pad. My jaw hit the ground when I watched it happen, I only saw it once thou.
__________________
2004-2010: Founding Member, Technical Mentor - Team 1388, Eagle Robotics
2011: ???
  #30   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-03-2005, 00:33
CJO's Avatar
CJO CJO is offline
Emeritus Pain in the $@#$@#$@#
AKA: Christopher J. O'Connell
None #1097 (Site 3 Engineering)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Latrobe (over the rainbow), CA
Posts: 217
CJO will become famous soon enoughCJO will become famous soon enough
Re: Building an arena controller

Two thoughts,

The e-stop on blue #3 did not work at SVR. We tried several things, and could not re-enable the e-stop.

As for the latency. I believe that there is ~1.5 sec between the end of autonomous mode and the beginning of driver control designed to allow field attendants to remove the hanging tetras.

Finally, at SVR we observed that the real time scoring frequently increased the field latency. Also, we had some communications problems with the team number displays.
__________________
Team 1097 -- Site 3 Engineering
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2003 Sacramento Rookie All Star
2003 Silicon Valley Rookie All Star
2004 Sacramento Engineering Inspiration Award
2004 Sacramento Visualization Award
2004 Outstanding Volunteer Award (G. Glasser)
2004 Silicon Valley Sportsmanship Award
2004 National Visualization Runner Up
2004 Cal Games Finalist
2005 Sacramento Sportsmanship Award
2005 Sacramento #1 seed
2005 Sacramento Finalist

2005 Silicon Valley Sportsmanship Award
2005 Silicon Valley #1 Seed
2005 Silicon Valley Finalist

Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IFI Loader and PROG button Dave... Programming 3 20-02-2005 12:03
IFI Loader usually hangs midway thru load gnormhurst Programming 4 04-02-2004 11:40
IFI Loader Problems BrendaB Programming 3 24-01-2004 22:45
IFI Loader Doc's Raven_Writer Programming 0 21-01-2004 17:53
Bug in IFI Loader rwaliany Programming 2 06-01-2004 21:26


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:06.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi