Religion in Education

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

With all due respect to you involved, this is turning into an argument over who is right and who is wrong, rather than the open discussion it was intended to be.

It seems that a lot of the reasons aren't explained well, or maybe I just missed something. I agree with a few of you that religion is a part of history, but I have a fear that the change in curriculum would be misrespresented in our current school systems. I know for a fact that there are teachers I wouldn't want to learn about various religions from simply because of bias.

A new curriculum may include books that cite information about various faiths, but on the same track, how will it change understanding and tolerance and make the idea welcome? The truth with religion in public schools is that no matter which way you choose to represent religion, there will be a huge amount of dissent from any party.

In my opinion, it is changing that dissent into acceptance on the family's part that is important, but a school cannot just change a family. It's possible, but hardly feasible. While such changes in curriculum are the ideal, I have a feeling that RavenWriter, among others, are looking for a more immediate and usable solution to the issue of religious education.

Thanks,
Genia

[Raven_Writer]

Originally Posted by Eugenia Gabrielov

With all due respect to you involved, this is turning into an argument over who is right and who is wrong, rather than the open discussion it was intended to be.

Well, atleast someone else is trying to keep this on the right track...thanks.

It seems that a lot of the reasons aren't explained well, or maybe I just missed something. I agree with a few of you that religion is a part of history, but I have a fear that the change in curriculum would be misrespresented in our current school systems. I know for a fact that there are teachers I wouldn't want to learn about various religions from simply because of bias.

Well, it is known for a fact that most historical events have happened because of history. I do agree that a change would be misrepresented, and that there are biased teachers when it comes to religion (my AP Gov. teacher is one). I think this is where the main problem lies.

A new curriculum may include books that cite information about various faiths, but on the same track, how will it change understanding and tolerance and make the idea welcome? The truth with religion in public schools is that no matter which way you choose to represent religion, there will be a huge amount of dissent from any party.

Really, if you think about it, if you actually wanted to learn about another religion...it'd be wiser to do it on your own instead of through the school. The school will always try to please the majority (which is usually of Christian decent), so then that means that Athiests would have to sit through a class that they believe they shouldn't be in, but are required to in order to graduate (assuming it goes this way...don't make any remarks on this situation).

In my opinion, it is changing that dissent into acceptance on the family's part that is important, but a school cannot just change a family. It's possible, but hardly feasible. While such changes in curriculum are the ideal, I have a feeling that RavenWriter, among others, are looking for a more immediate and usable solution to the issue of religious education.

Thanks,
Genia

This pretty much sums up what I haven't been able to say honestly.

Please, in respect to this thread, lets stay on track and not turn this into a "I'm-right-your-wrong" thread as Genia pointed out. I think that this can be a very useful thread if the discussion is right.

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by Raven_Writer

Please, in respect to this thread, lets stay on track and not turn this into a "I'm-right-your-wrong" thread as Genia pointed out. I think that this can be a very useful thread if the discussion is right.

You asked us to share our opinion if this is right. The only example you gave with any real information was about Crime and Punishment, so that was the one I addressed. As far as drawing comparisons between Satenism and Crime and Punishment, I'm rather interested in how Satenism has an impact upon the book.

Originally Posted by Raven_Writer

What does Adam & Eve, Satan, etc... have anything to do with on the topic of math though? No matter how you look at it, it would require knowledge of that religion.

I'll second Kens call for more information regarding the math question. I get asked questions all the time about subjects that I've only heard about in passing. Logging, tennis, invoices, and many other things. The point about them is that they merely serve to illustrate the use of a math concept. The same goes for my Biology classes, and my current teacher LOVES those types of questions.

It the question required an intimate knowledge of Genesis, then it is likely an unfair question. If it is just a vehicle for a concept, then no problem.

Originally Posted by Raven_Writer

there are biased teachers when it comes to religion

Do you think there are unbiased teachers when it comes to anything? By the very nature of individuality, each individual has an inherent and undeniable bias towards everything. Some people have large and obvious biases, others have theirs hidden, but everyone has them.


It is also my opinion that you should not entrust your personal growth and learning to anyone else. Learn in school, learn from others, but also learn on your own. Read varied sources on different things. Love to learn and you will go far.

Wetzel

[Raven_Writer]

I'm guessing that the "who's right" isn't going to end...I respect everyone's views on this, but lets just not try to change the views...

And in response to Wetzel:

Originally Posted by Wetzel

You asked us to share our opinion if this is right. The only example you gave with any real information was about Crime and Punishment, so that was the one I addressed. As far as drawing comparisons between Satenism and Crime and Punishment, I'm rather interested in how Satenism has an impact upon the book.

I did ask to share your opinion, but the thread became a war basically between our own view points...which is what I didn't want to happen.

Satanism didn't have an impact on the book, and I never claimed it did...I just said there's ressemblences (sp?) between Satanism & C&P.

I'll second Kens call for more information regarding the math question. I get asked questions all the time about subjects that I've only heard about in passing. Logging, tennis, invoices, and many other things. The point about them is that they merely serve to illustrate the use of a math concept. The same goes for my Biology classes, and my current teacher LOVES those types of questions.

I cannot give any more information about the math problem, since I did not take the test or anything...it's just what my friend told me (I do remember the question very vaguely though...since I had that same class last year).

You probably aren't very strong in supporting a seperation between those and math, biology, or any other classes. I am, however, that way.

Do you think there are unbiased teachers when it comes to anything? By the very nature of individuality, each individual has an inherent and undeniable bias towards everything. Some people have large and obvious biases, others have theirs hidden, but everyone has them.

No, I don't think there's ever a completely unbiased teacher. And I agree with you, everyone is biased in some matter.

It is also my opinion that you should not entrust your personal growth and learning to anyone else. Learn in school, learn from others, but also learn on your own. Read varied sources on different things. Love to learn and you will go far.

I entrust the growth of my knowledge to certain few...the rest I obtain on my own free will.

** If anyone wishes to continue this discussion anymore, please PM me...I really wish to keep this more on track and keep it's origional intentions **

[Katy]

In my AP English class, we're reading "Crime and Punishment" (Part I to be exact). During class, my teacher started bringing up a lot of references to Christianity. After about 20 minutes of listening to all these references, I asked the teacher to politely stop doing it (by raising my hand and whatnot). When I asked this, the teacher got a major attitude with me and this, and told me no, because of a bunch of reasons (I kind of tuned her out after she got an attitude).

Alright well honestly for starters I doubt any of us have the ability to change any sort of curriculum mid-class. On the practical point what would the teacher do even if she did want to stop? End class? Make up a new lesson plan on the spot? She probably got partly mad because that is an awfully difficult request. I also think personally that it is a bit tactless to argue something does not exist or is not a major part of book when you haven't read the book.

I am guessing...and I will freely admit the word guessing here...that the matches between the Satanic bible and Crime and Punishment can be attributed to the idea that the Satanic Bible probably has many references to the Christian Bible. Reactionary books have a lot in common with the things they react to. Sounds like a fascinating idea though...books/movies with Christian influences viewed through the Satanic Bible....*throws The Scarlet Letter, The Chronicles of Narnia, The Lord of The Rings, The Once and Future King and several other stacks of books in* If that was a class I would so take it.

For your math thing I do not quite understand how that got in there but really I do not understand an awful lot of that story. Skipping that to the computer class...I think it is probably unfair to name the rest of the class "ignorant" if the entire goal of this is a flameless friendly thoughtful conversation.

and to no suprise she lost (the people in class are rather ignorant and such....

It would have been nice if it had said "in the Christian/Jewish/Islamic traditions" but I really think there is not much to argue against unless you wrote down "I believe in evolution" or two names according to another religion and your teacher marked it wrong. I think that freedom of religion allows people to write whatever they like in that space and just keeps a teacher from marking it as wrong...as a side note a rather dumb question or a freebie however you like to look at it. You do probably have to answer the question though according to your knowledge of the world...blank spaces are always blank spaces and I can't see how you could get credit for that. I have to ask how that came up in computer science class though.