What is missing from this years game?

[Mr. Van]

In a word. Nothing.

This is a great game. If we want to knit-pnick, we could use an additional task to provide scoring... like creating a stack of tetras on the ground or something like that, but all in all, Triple Play stands very well on its own.

One thing that is missing from last year is the 10, 20, 30 (or even greater) seconds at the end of the match with robots hanging around and time simply ticking away. What is also missing from previous year's games is the element that scores so high (or multiplies the score) that once it is accomplished, the opposing alliance might as well shut down.

As far as "audience off the street" goes, we all know that FIRST must do a much better job at getting people to go to the event at all... Having said that, Triple Play is really easy to follow. Tell people to look for the rows. Rows win the game. At the end of the round, count the tetras & count the rows - you'll have a good idea who wins. Once you realize that high scores are in the rows, the game is very exciting.

BTW, none of the "popular sports" games (football, etc.) have a "big finish". They are all "everyone doing the same thing over and over".

To the Game Design Team: Thank you for Triple Play!

-Mr. Van
Coach, 599
(Game Announcer at PNWR)

[pakrat]

ok, so two years ago, it was easy you push crates into the carpet thats your robots color, one point per box and 25 points for being on top of a platform at the end. (stacks didn't come into play much at my regionals)

last year, you put balls (which were labelled with point values, very average Joe friendly) into your goals and then hang from a bar, and you can tell very easily if a team hangs (they are swinging around)

this year put put stuff wherever, and its worth random (and small) point values. then you dont go behoind the line because its not strategic and dont get a bonus at the end.

[Shu Song]

Originally Posted by pakrat

ok, so two years ago, it was easy you push crates into the carpet thats your robots color, one point per box and 25 points for being on top of a platform at the end. (stacks didn't come into play much at my regionals)

last year, you put balls (which were labelled with point values, very average Joe friendly) into your goals and then hang from a bar, and you can tell very easily if a team hangs (they are swinging around)

this year put put stuff wherever, and its worth random (and small) point values. then you dont go behoind the line because its not strategic and dont get a bonus at the end.

interesting way of putting it, but a good point nonetheless.

I would have liked it much better if they explained the score somehow after every match. It becomes VERY confusing when trying to figure out what's capped and whats not and goal is owned by whom. So by the end of the first day I just didn't bother and just trusted the score, but I hear that in Arizona Regional, they messed up the scoring/ranking; that's no good.

[Not2B]

My mom (59 years young) loved the game - she thought it was exciting. Came from Cleveland to watch us at GLR. She liked watching the different arms lifting the things into the air. And she liked it when some of them fell over.

But she also said she had no idea how to win, how to score, and she also thought the refs didn't know how to score it either. (Due to the long break after the game ended and the score was announced.)

So, she was utterly confused, but thought it was interesting to watch anyways. Visually a very cool game, but hard to understand.

Kinda like watching underwater shark tag on ESPN 2 at 3:00am. Wild to watch, but I don't get it.

[chinckley]

The announcer at GLR did a good job explaining penalties. I hear that there were many fewer than the first week regionals. I liked the game. It gave our team (a 2nd year team) a fighting chance.

Also, given that Team 66 was the only team I saw or have heard of to score a vision tetra, I would not say that the game was too easy. Otherwise, I think we all would be able to do it. It is as hard as the autonomous was last year. Last year we accomplished it once in a practice round. This year we pushed a vision tetra but could never lift it.

I thought it was exciting this year.

It may be that FIRST was looking for a way for teams to not drop out. It seemed that lots of teams did not come back this year. I am not sure if it was funding or what. Some Regionals did not fill up this year. If they make it too challenging they run the risk of teams dropping out. This year they said their goal was to allow all teams to build a robot that could compete and yet challenge the long term teams to dig deeper and do more with the code and strategy. It was fun to see that each team had a chance.

I can hardly wait to see what next year brings.

[dpasquariello]

When the game was revealed this year I felt that the excitement of going to the bar (last year) was absent. I realized, however, that there is a need to make significant changes from year to year.

Last year, I watched my son's Rookie team in Manchester, and luckily, in Atlanta. There was plenty of excitement - a robot lifting itself off the ground - wow!

This year I was a spectator at Manchester, and I mentored a Rookie team at UTC. There is excitement this year also, but it is much more dependent on the quality of the match-ups and the skill of the drive teams.

I feel the ease with which penalties are called in this year's game is a real problem. The field is so small that it makes it difficult for the referees to judge whether contact in the loading zone is incidental or intentional. The penalties are so severe, (since point totals tend to be low) that there is no way to know for sure who's winning until the final score is put up on the board.

I'm sure that some penalties occur because of the difficulty of the drivers to have a clear line of sight over the field. I thought that there was an inconsistency in the way penalties were called at the two competitions that I saw. I know that this is subject to rules interpretation by the judges, and they have a difficult job. Basically, I don't think that this year's game is an easy one to judge, and minor differences in interpretation seem to cause a big swing in match play results.

Having 6 'bots in play at once gives everybody more playing time, but the resulting chaos makes it more difficult to follow and therefore to enjoy.

I was also disappointed in how few teams were able to do significant damage in autonomous mode. I suppose that task difficulty can only really be assessed when the matches are played.

Can it be that the game is really secondary? It remains a vehicle for testing the abilities of the team. Our rookie group feels pretty good about the challenges that they met and what they learned along the way. Judging from the smiles, the levels of concentration, and the attitudes that they exhibited throughout the tournament, I think that the prime objective was achieved.

[S.Nickens]

First off, the exciting part is supposed to be over. The six weeks from kick-off to ship is the real challenge, and thus, the real game is over.
However, if the excitement, diversity and ease of understanding from the previous two years is missing, it could have an impact on the future if this years game doesn't have the same effect. While it's great for all the "FIRSTer's" who understand the rules and complexity of the game, the FIRST timers are going to have a tough time getting excited about something they don't understand and can't follow. Our team wound up with a lot more adult mentors and volunteers this year because they got swept up with the intensity and excitement of last years regional events. Some even endured an 18 hour bus ride so they could attend the nationals. From an adult mentor's standpoint, it's hard to see all the parents just drop off their kids day after day, night after night and not bother to get involved and find out what a great program their kids are involved in. It was great to see the reaction of parents who attended their first "robotics competition" and have a look on their face like a five year old at Disneyland. The more people who can be introduced to FIRST in a way they could never expect (a fun and exciting way), the more mentors and volunteers we could draw who would be willing to make the sacrifice of time, money, sleep, nutrition and home repair/remodeling to help nurture and mold the minds that will shape our future. So if you see someone new this year watching with a puzzled look, or about to nod off, do you're best to help them understand the game/rules and get them excited about them competition.
Good luck to all!

[Rafi A]

Originally Posted by S.Nickens

First off, the exciting part is supposed to be over. The six weeks from kick-off to ship is the real challenge, and thus, the real game is over.
However, if the excitement, diversity and ease of understanding from the previous two years is missing, it could have an impact on the future if this years game doesn't have the same effect. While it's great for all the "FIRSTer's" who understand the rules and complexity of the game, the FIRST timers are going to have a tough time getting excited about something they don't understand and can't follow. Our team wound up with a lot more adult mentors and volunteers this year because they got swept up with the intensity and excitement of last years regional events. Some even endured an 18 hour bus ride so they could attend the nationals. From an adult mentor's standpoint, it's hard to see all the parents just drop off their kids day after day, night after night and not bother to get involved and find out what a great program their kids are involved in. It was great to see the reaction of parents who attended their first "robotics competition" and have a look on their face like a five year old at Disneyland. The more people who can be introduced to FIRST in a way they could never expect (a fun and exciting way), the more mentors and volunteers we could draw who would be willing to make the sacrifice of time, money, sleep, nutrition and home repair/remodeling to help nurture and mold the minds that will shape our future. So if you see someone new this year watching with a puzzled look, or about to nod off, do you're best to help them understand the game/rules and get them excited about them competition.
Good luck to all!

I can understand your concern about parents, but all of the parents that came with us to the St. Louis regional picked up the game very quickly. They also got very enthused and excited, which was awesome. I can't even begin to explain how good it made me feel to see that "Disneyland" look on thier faces.

[Doug G]

Yes, 2003 was the best at being a great spectator game. But we just got to remember that the best way to enjoy the game is to get involved with a team as Nickens said. For the parents and visitors that came to watch us at our regional, those that really dug it, we're the same ones who came to the kickoff and on weekends to help. My brother-in-law came by to check things out and he didn't seem that thrilled - but that was his first experience to FIRST.

I don't think FIRST needs to be a great spectator sport, if that were the goal, the game would never change, most teams would be "losers" and they'd charge admission (sometimes I think that might be good).

[S.Nickens]

Originally Posted by Rafi A

I can understand your concern about parents, but all of the parents that came with us to the St. Louis regional picked up the game very quickly. They also got very enthused and excited, which was awesome. I can't even begin to explain how good it made me feel to see that "Disneyland" look on thier faces.

My concern was with the students, but the the parents can help the program grow by also getting involved.

[Greg Needel]

i think the onlything missing from this game is a multiplier...i think it would be cool to have a differnt color tetra (maybe the vision tetras) act as multipliers for the tetras of that color on a goal. it definatly would add an extra kick to the game

[tml240]

well 2000vfr800 has a good point about ppl off the street being interested about FIRST (which is the point of FIRST, make ppl -- outside tech -- get inspired and excited about technology and its fun), but since I have not been to the regional yet and have not heard off 'off-street' ppl, I will make my comments on the game later on.

interesting thread tho

[Don Wright]

I really want to thank everyone here for posting their thoughts on this subject. I really had no idea it would draw so much interest. And thanks for keeping it very civil. I appreciate it.

[Jack Murphy]

This game is…

Awesome!

1. It’s up to us to help Grandma understand and score. Maybe someone with skills can draw up this idea as a one page hand-out for upcoming regionals.
After about three matches at GLR I realized counting tetras was difficult. Instead, I would cancel tetras. First, count rows scored, one team will usually end up plus 1, plus two etc. Then start with tetra’s, one red cancels one blue so you only have to count plus one, minus one etc. Often the home rows would cancel each other entirely. After lunch on Friday I was able to know who won 90% of the time in about 5 seconds.
2. The refs and the teams improved hugely between week 1 and 2. Many teams were able to go through an entire comp with no penalties. The refs got a lot more comfortable with interpreting the rules. In one match a GLR a team got clobbered in the Auto load zone. The ref asked if their intent was to load and they graciously said no. There was no penalty. (They lost the match). I don’t think that happened in week one.
3. I’m really looking forward to week 3 and beyond, Good Luck to all teams.

[JulieB]

Well this year game is not as good as some of the others but its OK
i like last year game a lot more.

This years game it missing the SAFETY. Some of the judges and field reseter at the Peachtree regional nearly hit in head with tetras.