The finals in Philly: A 293 team member's perspective

[sw293]

I was alliance captain of the fourth seeded alliance at the Philadelphia Regional. I cannot speak for others nor can I tell the experience from their perspective. I do not speak for team 293, our drivers, our human player, our scouts, our mentors or our fans, and I do not speak for our alliance partners, their drivers, their human player, their scouts, their mentors or their fans. I can only tell the story of the regional finals--my last regional finals--from my own perspective. I can only tell the story of how I reached the doorstep of achieving my season's goal--making it to the Championship Event--and how I was denied it.

Our fourth seeded alliance of 293, 358, and 834 had convincingly won four consecutive matches in the quarterfinals and semifinals through incredible teamwork, a great offensive strategy and clutch driving and capping. Two more wins would punch our tickets to the Championships in Atlanta. I could smell the peaches. Our alliance began to prepare for the inevitable matchup against the powerful trio of Moe, Robbe, and 316. Considering how they were plowing through the first two rounds of the tourney, I doubt anyone would have given us much of a shot.

Before the finals, Moe took its official timeout to fix some mechanical problems caused by agressive defense in the semifinals. While their alliance was off the field during the timeout, our three robots were standing in their start positions, ready to be switched on for battle. Before the first match of the finals, the same announcer who got our name wrong came onto the field and extolled the good deeds of Moe. I joined all the fans in applauding the good deeds, because teams like 365 help spread the FIRST experience to so many people. The folks that matter at this regional love Moe for good reason. But I didn’t care about those people. I cared about the other eleven operators from our alliance, and all the people in the stands that they represented. I cared about the scouts who had done so much hard work for the team, who had filled a three-inch binder with notes on other teams, who gave me the knowledge to pick 358 and 834.

Our strategy for the finals was similar to the strategy for the last two rounds: stick with what worked. We would continue doing what we did in the quarterfinals and semifinals, mixing an overall offensive strategy with defensive tactics like bumps, pushes, and pins. The first match of the finals went exactly as planned: We slaughtered them 60-37. When it was over, I screamed so long and so loud my stomach hurt. One more win and we are going to Atlanta!

Before long, my excitement was tempered when the announcer declared that there were penalties on the blue alliance for 358 tipping 56. After a long huddle, the referees broke up, and the score flashed on the screen: Red 37, Blue 0. The ref had disqualified us for “excessive rough play.” I have been to only four FIRST Regionals, but never before have I heard as many boos as I did after the score was posted. When I asked the head referee for an explanation, he said that 358 had intentionally tipped over 56. When I asked him why he thought it was intentional, he confused me with his reasoning. I hear a lot of complaining about the officials at the Trenton Regional, but I disagree with those complaints. The Trenton officials were consistent, and they were also willing and able to lucidly explain their interpretation of the rules. You knew what you could and couldn’t do. At Philly, it was anybody’s guess. The second semifinal was far rougher than the last match; Paragon beat up Moe, and Robbe drove 381 into a goal. In earlier matches, we had wedge bots get under us several times, and never was it called. The officials told me they had been consistently calling intentional tipping and disqualifying robots for it, but I knew they hadn’t. If they had been, my scouts would have told me about it.

But I understand that the ref’s call is final, and there is no use arguing past a certain point. I didn’t share with him my biggest objection with the call. The infraction which led to the disqualification was “intentional” tipping, which meant that by the referee’s judgment, Team 358 took a cheap shot and violated the spirit of gracious professionalism. This is a team that has won the Sportsmanship Award at the Long Island Regional. This is the reigning Long Island Regional champion and Chairman’s winner. They are not thugs; they are a classy team, too classy to take an intentional cheap shot at another robot in a match they are already winning.

We were deflated by the crushing defeat dealt by the referees, and we lost our focus in the next match. Spike accidentally de-capped the center goal, our human player didn’t come out for five seconds after our robot was in the loading zone, and another of our bots got stuck capping a goal. We still put up a respectable showing, losing by only 13 before we were docked 10 penalty points. At our very worst, we were only 13 points worse than the other alliance on the field. Would we have won if the call hadn’t gone against us? We’ll never know. And I’ll never know what it is like to compete at Nationals.

I am sitting on the bus holding the second place trophy, watching I-95 race to the horizon behind me. For me, the Championship Event is what it was two days ago: a dream. Except now it is a dream that will never come true.

[Kims Robot]

I've reread this post a few times, and it seems incredibly similar to a lot of other posts that I have seen from other regionals. There were MANY teams that went through the same predicament. Including at Buckeye. In many of our eyes, 229/135/1403 should not have just a silver medal...

However, what I dont get is all of these teams complaining that they lost out on the opportunity to go to Nationals... the only teams that have this right are the rookie teams... spots were open for EVERY team this year. Every single team could have registered. It was open all the way through Tier 1. If I remember right, there was even a spot or two open when they closed registration. I know a lot of teams have a hard time getting funding... but where there is a will there is a way. Register, and cancel out if you cant make the money.

So I am sorry for your loss, and I tend to agree with the strangeness of some of the calls, but Nationals was tangible for every team without a 15 in front of the last two numbers of their team number.

[Meyerman]

I dont think you guys have anything to be down about really, looking at my pick list from NJ Regional which you are on u didnt get picked which shocked me well u ended up picking! the alliance that would go on to be Finalist at your next regional I think thats a great improvement. you went from not being picked to picking and became regional finalist and u walked away with the General Motors Industrial Design Award. I'd say you guys made out quite alright. congrats on a good season 293.

[Mike Schroeder]

a) yes the refs rule is final
b) when a ref says Intetional that is at his descrestion, the ref has no idea what the "agressive team" was thinking, but can only make calls, based on what he/she sees
c) my team has won, EI awards, and Sportsmanship awards, its funny cause alot of people would say we are rather agressive, but defense is one of those tricky things. and besides things like EI and chairmens reflect on your team off of the feild, and a team can still be agressive and win a Sporsmanship award, i just want to see that team be the first in the pit of the teams robot that was damaged by their defense.

d) see a


congrats to 293 you had a great robot as usual

[deathbycornchip]

i would have to say that statement sums up all my feeling too. the prospect of going to the nationals in my freshmen year was so exciting. I tryed not to bulled up to much hope because i knew 56 might crush us. but after the first match(before the scores were posted) i couldn't help it. it looked like a victory for us. then came the the voice. "it looks like there have been some penalties that effect the outcome of the match" i know these words all to well form the Trenton regionals.

maybe... maybe next, year we will make it to nationals.
and mabey next year we will have pro refs.


PS. watch the post length or ull be called for "excessive post length" sw.

[Mike Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Revolverx7

The only thing that can be changed now is to make sure that next year the refs can finaly understand to be fair and impartial.

before you go judging the refs partiality i think you should take a second and rethink it, that is not a very gracious thing to accuse people of, who give their time to help YOU be able to participate in a Robotics Compeititon

[Kevin Sevcik]

Being a volunteer does not make someone sacrosanct. I've seen the phrase "they're just volunteers" bandied about as reasons to let problems with reffing and other things slide, and it's annoying me. It's completely possible for someone to volunteer at something and utterly bollix it. I don't beleive there's any great contradiction in being appreciative of someone's efforts while still noting that they didn't do a good job at it. It's entirely possible, also, that they're not doing a good job because they're being poorly instructed in how to do their job. I think what we need to do is figure out the root cause of all the heartache and consternation this year and make a concerted effort to fix it. Simply ignoring the problem, shrugging it off, or making excuses isn't going to help anything.

[Jonathan]

Dear Team 293,

As a third year member of team 316 I can understand your frustration at the calls that were made yesterday in the elimination rounds. The one thing you have to remember is that each week is a new week. My team just last week was in your shoes. We had seed 3rd at Annapolis and were paired up with team 1507, and 836. During the semifinals team 007 ripped a wired loose from 1507's bot and disabled their arm. 007 did this in both matches and cripled our alliance. I went to the head ref and he told me that it was accidental. This week at Philly we seeded 23rd, i believe, and we were selected by MOE and went on to win. You win some and you lose some. Either way you guys have nothing to be sorry about. You competed well and had one of the best bots out there

[sw293]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

b) when a ref says Intetional that is at his descrestion, the ref has no idea what the "agressive team" was thinking, but can only make calls, based on what he/she sees

Intentional means done by intent or design. Your intent is that which you are trying to do. When the ref says 358 was intentionally tipping 56, he means that they were trying to tip 56 over. Were 358's drivers trying to push 56 over without thinking about it? I'd like to see you make that argument. The ref, by making this call, is saying that 358 tried to push over 56. He is making a judgment about what they were thinking.

If he had no idea what they were thinking, he should not have assumed the violation was intentional.

[sw293]

I appreciate all your condolences but I have filled up on them for now. I would rather this thread focus on how to ameliorate the situation for teams 293 and 834 and how to prevent stories like mine at Philly from becoming normal in FIRST.

[DarkJedi613]

Well to prevent it I think a rule change is in order (not necessarily for this season). The rules need to be absolute, like the loading zone one - you hit someone in a loading zone its a 30 point penalty no matter what, whether you meant it or not. There should not be "the intention of the driver" involved.