Coaches and the starting line

[Swampdude]

I got word of it right before our match started, then chased off the field into the pit and forgot about it till later. But you're right, that would have been my normal procedure. I think also in the back of my mind, with all the crazy penalties, I didn't want to open that can of worms up with the refs. Play dumb and maybe it will go away. In the pace these competitions move at, challenging the refs usually doesn't happen anyway. For instance we coasted across the finish line after the buzzer and were told it didn't count and the rules supported that. But there's nothing specific about not counting that (I don't think). I'm the type to keep my mouth shut and try to respect whatevers said - but not second hand stuff like that.

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by Swampdude

For instance we coasted across the finish line after the buzzer and were told it didn't count and the rules supported that. But there's nothing specific about not counting that (I don't think). I'm the type to keep my mouth shut and try to respect whatevers said - but not second hand stuff like that.

In that case, you SHOULD have asked. Unless there was something else going on, the field is scored after it has come to rest. You can coast across the line and score, or have your arm backdrive and come to rest on top of a stack and lose a tetra. In addition to that, if there are still robots rolling out there, I know I'm not steping onto the field to score it.

Refs are human. Humans make mistakes. Therefor, refs make mistakes. If you have questions or think something is not in alignment with the rules then please ask us. Have one or two people go and ask the head ref why something was called as such the previous match. We are there so you can play the game and have a good safe time, we are not out to get you.

I can't speak for the rest of the refs, but I like talking to teams between matches. It is a long few days, and a few moments of conversation here and there is nice.

Originally Posted by meaubry

During our first competition we had to request clarity as to when the drivers could touch the controls. The clock timer on the display at the end of the field or the sound of the bells?

What answer did you get? We used the on field clock because the bells had a tendency to be wildly off, or occasionally not ring at all.


Wetzel

[meaubry]

What answer did you get? We used the on field clock because the bells had a tendency to be wildly off, or occasionally not ring at all.


Wetzel[/quote]

we were told to ignore the clock and go by the bell - the ref said he couldn't watch the clock and 3 sets of drivers at the same time - but he could watch the drivers and listen for the bell at the same time. Sounded fair enough to me - and he was consistant about telling every team at the beginning of every match (after the initial question and dialog had brought the concern up, in the first place)

[Swampdude]

Originally Posted by Wetzel

In that case, you SHOULD have asked. Unless there was something else going on, the field is scored after it has come to rest. You can coast across the line and score, or have your arm backdrive and come to rest on top of a stack and lose a tetra. In addition to that, if there are still robots rolling out there, I know I'm not steping onto the field to score it.

I did ask the head ref (Don Johnston at UCF) he said you cannot cross the line after the buzzer. Here's the match
You will see us coasting in after the buzzer, but were told it didn't count because it's where you are when the buzzer sounds "as per the rules". So I didn't argue, just left it at that. Other people got upset but oh well.

[gburlison]

From '2005 FIRST Robotics Competition Manual: Section 4 – The Game'
I added the italics for emphasis:

<G06> No team member may pass the Starting Line in their TEAM ZONE until the conclusion of the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD. All team members must stay within their alliance’s designated TEAM ZONE during the match. If a team member passes the Starting Line before the autonomous period ends, except to save their controls from a violent collision of a robot into the diamond plate, or leaves their TEAM ZONE during the match, the team will be assessed a 10 point penalty. If a HUMAN PLAYER leaves the HUMAN PLAYER ZONE at any time during the match for any reason other than personal safety, the team will be assessed a 10 point penalty. However, if such actions are deemed by the referee to be so serious to have affected the outcome of the match, the team may be disabled and disqualified.

TEAM ZONE – the region behind the player station wall where the DRIVERS and COACH stand during the match.

In only one place in Section 4 does it place additional restrictions on the COACH compared to the DRIVERS: (once again I have added italics for emphasis)

<G22> During a match, the ROBOTS may be remotely operated only by the DRIVERS and/or by software running in the on-board control system. If a COACH touches his/her team’s controls anytime during a match, the ROBOT will be disabled and the team disqualified.

I could find no rule restricting the movement of the COACH inside the TEAM ZONE.

[Rombus]

At Buckeye i didn't get flagged for walking over the line, infact i was very concerned about crossing that line, until i saw every other coach doing it. I was all over the team box too, and never got flagged, but i was very careful not to break the plane.

We did have a situation with a timer/buzzer sync issue. One time up, everyone crossed the line at 118 seconds, since we all saw it counting down, but no buzzer, one of the other alliance teams got flagged since the ref never heard the buzzer, the buzzer finally sounded almost 5 seconds later. Luckily the ref realized the mistake and it wasn't counted against us in the end.

[Kit Gerhart]

Originally Posted by Ogre

If you were told that you couldn't cross the line, and knew that it sounded bogus, why didn't you go ask the refs right after they told you that?
As a coach, you should know the rules best. If the refs told you something that you don't think is in the rule book, it is your responsibility to ask the refs for clarification. That includes them reading the rule to you and explaining themselves.

There were a lot of other, well, curious rules interpretations at Colorado, like not calling the 30 point penalties on robots which repeatedly drove into opponents in their loading zones collecting tetras. Then, during the quarter final round, they called a few of them, but assessed 10 points rather than the 30 specified in the rules. With all of this going on, we didn't press the point on their "coach can't cross the line" rule. The bottom line is that there appear to be a more-than-normal number of cases this year where the referees don't really know the rules very well, or don't care about properly applying them. I hope this situation is corrected for the Championship.

By now, I'm probably being labeled a "sore winner" or much worse, but it is disappointing to see the "locally conceived" rules that are popping up this year. By the way, I have been a referee ('03 Championship and IRI) and will no doubt serve as a referee again.