"Load Bearing Surface"

[Natchez]

Originally Posted by Natchez

ALL of my comments are irrelevant if the rule is enforced as it is written. If this is the case, I will publicly applaud FIRST AND apologize for using everyone’s valuable white space and time.

From a post-regional perspective, I believe that this conversation is very healthy for FIRST. The experience of many CDers to predict when a rule might be an issue could be a very valuable resource to FIRST. If FIRST could somehow capture this knowledge before January each year, it could certainly help with the finer details of the rules; BUT with that written, I realize that it is an enormous task to create a new game each year and that time does not allow for a "committee" to discuss the finer points of the rules for a month ... also, the secrecy element of the game must be taken into consideration.

Originally Posted by Natchez

As the proud introducer of "train wreck" to this discussion, I now believe that you are 100% right, this will not be a big issue this year; not because the refs will get the calls right more than 80% of the time, but because the flags will be staying in their pockets on 95% of the violations.

The reason that I believe that we will be pleasantly surprised in '05 is that the refs will introduce an "in the neighborhood" policy for being in the loading zones similar to how we train our FLL refs, "Enforce the rules but give the teams the benefit of the doubt."

From what I have seen and heard, the "in the neighborhood" policy was in place at most of the regionals. Do you think it was?

Originally Posted by Natchez

Get your loading-zone-feelers here. For the low price of $399, you can forget all of those, "Oh, we got a penalty because we were straddling the loading zone" headaches. With our advanced design, installation is a zip. With our advanced distribution, you can have your loading-zone-feelers TODAY! Please send $390 to

Mississippi Curb Feelers, Inc.
PO Box 55555
The Great Sate of Mississippi

and then with the remaining $9, please go to Home Depot and pick up some wire "zip" ties. As soon as we receive your $390, we'll fax you instructions as to how to properly install the wire ties so they touch the floor . Please include your favorite charity with your payment and we'll send some money to them so we'll get a tax break and will not feel so guilty for gouging you.

Hundreds of robots with Loading-Zone-Feelers and not one check . So much for early retirement.

Originally Posted by dlavery

I bought a whole bag of nice bright day-glo orange ones at Home Depot.
...
I still say that you owe me two more FULL boxes from a certain bet from two years ago...

Can we call it even since you never sent in your $390 to Mississippi Curb Feelers, Inc. . Okay, okay, I'll bring your Krispy Kremes to the Championships ... I bought them right after the '03 Championships ... I'm sure they are still in the attic

Originally Posted by Pat Major

why not have the referees signal by raising an arm that a robot is in the loading station and it is safe for the team to remove a tetra.

Originally Posted by Natchez

I'll buy you lunch if we see a bunch of refs hands going up at Championships

At the Lone Star Regional, the refs would give a thumb-up signal to the human players when the robot was in the loading-zone. The refs would also, without penalty, wave the human players back if their robot was not in the loading-zone so they could try again. Hopefully, I'll still be buying lunch ... even if it's just a thumb going up!

Originally Posted by Natchez

If there is not a way for the refs to get the calls "right" at least 95% of the time, I think that the rule (whatever it ends up being) should be considered a failure. And if you think 95% is a high standard, this percentage means that there will be at least one missed call during each match resulting in a 10 point "swing" and in a game that will not see many matches over 50 points per alliance, a 10 point swing is huge and will probably swing many matches ... not excluding the World Championship matches. After thinking about it, maybe FIRST should be shooting for rules that ensure more like a 98% or 99% ref call accuracy rate; and for those that have a low accuracy rate, maybe the penalty should be less than 5% of the expected average score. These are the type of standards and litmus tests that I wish FIRST would adopt.

Do you think that the refs have been over 95% accurate on the loading-zone calls?

All in all, I think that this was the most common "missed" call this year with contact with a robot in a loading zone coming in a close second. It has been fun reviewing this post with 100/100 hindsight ... I was only at one regional so I definitely don't have a clear view of this issue. Again, I commend everyone on keeping this thread above-the-belt.

Finally & most importantly, this has not been a knock against the refs. They do a great job and we are forever grateful for their service.

I hope you had a great year,
Lucien