Go to Post The weight sounds about right, too. If you need more than 65 pounds for your manipulator, then the drivetrain isn't the part you should be redesigning... - s_forbes [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > Rumor Mill
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-04-2005, 19:19
Keith Chester's Avatar
Keith Chester Keith Chester is offline
HGFSP
FRC #0025 (Team 25)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 382
Keith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Keith Chester
Dual fields

The idea of dual field regionals have been in the air for some time, especially with FIRST's growth being as large as it is. Super regionals are the logical next step.

My curiosity got the best of me and I have to ask, how would we do this? If one field is 15 minutes ahead and another 15 minutes behind, the schedule would become wickedly off.

This is how I was picturing a dual field regional - two divisons, A and B, each getting a field. A team always plays on one field, never switching back and forth. The rankings are all COMBINED- so for an 80 team regional with two fields, 40 a divison, there would be one ranking system of the top 80 teams.

Finals? Top 16 seeds stand up and pick their partners from both divisions. Same rules as the top 8 finals system regionals use now. The quarter finals then take place on the two fields. The semifinalists then go to a single field and compete as if it was a regualr quarter finals. What does all this mean? There's simply one more stage of finals until you find your winners, and the regional is that much harder.

Such is my idea. Of course there could be a much easier system for organizing a dual field system...

What do you guys think? I remember that, in my freshman year of '02 at nationals, teams seemed to move across the four fields for different matches, even if the divisions never crossed over eachother. I wonder- how was that done? Or did a late field make ever other field late?
__________________
A proud graduate of 25.
Students. Teammates. Brothers.
Proud member of R.I.N.O.S., Rookies In Need Of Support.
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-04-2005, 19:21
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 6,817
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cory
Re: Dual fields

The Canadian Regional had two fields last year.
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-04-2005, 19:23
Keith Chester's Avatar
Keith Chester Keith Chester is offline
HGFSP
FRC #0025 (Team 25)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 382
Keith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Keith Chester
Re: Dual fields

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory
The Canadian Regional had two fields last year.
Really? Never knew that. Tell me- how was it ran and how successful was it?
__________________
A proud graduate of 25.
Students. Teammates. Brothers.
Proud member of R.I.N.O.S., Rookies In Need Of Support.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-04-2005, 19:25
Ian Curtis Ian Curtis is offline
Best Available Data
FRC #1778 (Chill Out!)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 2,521
Ian Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond reputeIan Curtis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dual fields

If you have enough teams to warrant a duel field why not just a run it with divisions set up like the ones at the championship. Two divisions one division per field with the divisions never crossing. Each division has its own finals. Top two alliances face off and you have your champions.
__________________
CHILL OUT! | Aero Stability & Control Engineer
Adam Savage's Obsessions (TED Talk) (Part 2)
It is much easier to call someone else a genius than admit to yourself that you are lazy. - Dave Gingery
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-04-2005, 19:27
Unsung FIRST Hero
Karthik Karthik is offline
VEX Robotics GDC Chairman
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,346
Karthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond reputeKarthik has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dual fields

In 2004, the Greater Toronto Regional (Then known as the Canadian Regional) did in fact have two fields. However there were no divisions. Teams played matches on both the "Pontiac" and "Chevrolet" fields. Matches would alternate between both fields, never coinciding. This allowed for the match interval to be reduced to 3:30, which is far lower than the standard 5-7 minutes.

The top 16 teams selected alliances from the entire field of 75 teams.

It was an amazing setup, and provided a Championship like feel.

In 1998 and 1999 (possibly other years pre-98) all events had two fields. This is because the playing fields were much smaller. These events ran similarly to how Toronto was run in 2004.
__________________
:: Karthik Kanagasabapathy ::
"Enthusiasm is one of the most powerful engines of success. When you do a thing, do it with all your might. Put your whole soul into it. Stamp it with your own personality. Be active, be energetic, be enthusiastic and faithful and you will accomplish your object. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm" -- R.W. Emerson
My TEDx Talk - The Subtle Secrets of Success
Full disclosure: I work for IFI and VEX Robotics, and am the Chairman of the VEX Robotics and VEX IQ Game Design Committees
.

Last edited by Karthik : 04-04-2005 at 19:30.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-04-2005, 19:34
Keith Chester's Avatar
Keith Chester Keith Chester is offline
HGFSP
FRC #0025 (Team 25)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 382
Keith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Keith Chester
Re: Dual fields

Sounds like an excellent setup, but what happend (or would happen) if one field started to fall behind because of field difficulty?
__________________
A proud graduate of 25.
Students. Teammates. Brothers.
Proud member of R.I.N.O.S., Rookies In Need Of Support.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-04-2005, 20:05
Aaron's Avatar
Happy Birthday! Aaron Aaron is offline
Registered User
FRC #3719 (Whaler Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: New London, CT
Posts: 94
Aaron is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Aaron
Re: Dual fields

its gonna be harder to find venues. Most regionals are held in arenas which barely fit pits and a field. ur gonna need twice the room, meaning a statium, some not every one has semi locally indoors.
__________________

Team 3719 - 2013-Present
2014 RI District Judges Award

Team 1493 - 2007
2007 UTC Connecticut Regional 2nd Seed and Semi- Finalist

Team 11 - 2001-2005
2005 New Jersey Regional Chairmans Award Winners, Palmetto Autodesk Visualization Award Winners, Palmetto Judges Award Winner
2004 Palmetto Regional winners of DiamlerChrysler Team Spirit Award, Palmetto Regional Winners(281, 11, 122), Curie Division 5th seed (11, 190, 179)
2002 J&J MidAtlantic Regional Finalists, Canadian Regional winners of the Xerox Creativity award
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-04-2005, 20:07
Aaron's Avatar
Happy Birthday! Aaron Aaron is offline
Registered User
FRC #3719 (Whaler Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: New London, CT
Posts: 94
Aaron is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Aaron
Re: Dual fields

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory
The Canadian Regional had two fields last year.
i heard about that. we went to that regional in 2002 and it was so packed that they were nearly an hour behind. they also had over 50 teams
__________________

Team 3719 - 2013-Present
2014 RI District Judges Award

Team 1493 - 2007
2007 UTC Connecticut Regional 2nd Seed and Semi- Finalist

Team 11 - 2001-2005
2005 New Jersey Regional Chairmans Award Winners, Palmetto Autodesk Visualization Award Winners, Palmetto Judges Award Winner
2004 Palmetto Regional winners of DiamlerChrysler Team Spirit Award, Palmetto Regional Winners(281, 11, 122), Curie Division 5th seed (11, 190, 179)
2002 J&J MidAtlantic Regional Finalists, Canadian Regional winners of the Xerox Creativity award
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2005, 14:14
Lil' Lavery Lil' Lavery is online now
TSIMFD
AKA: Sean Lavery
FRC #1712 (DAWGMA)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,641
Lil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Lil' Lavery
Re: Dual fields

You can hold up to about 70-80 teams on one field (the size of a champ division) and still get a reasonable amount of matches to play.
But the duel field allows some of the larger and growing regionals (Greater Toronto, VCU, ect.) to play more teams and more matches. The biggest problem is not organization, its space. Many venues sqeez to pack in the pits and one field. The only way to add another would be to have a smaller field, or to move the pits to another part of the venue (which most agree is a bad idea).
Pro Venues have enough space to hold multiple fields, but most of the regionals are primarily sponsored by colleges, which typically lack an affiliation with a professional size venue. If we see large corporations start to sponsor regional events, or even sports teams (which with the exception of St. Louis, which the owners of the St. Louis Blues are personally financing, we probably wont see) start to sponsor the regionals then we could move into the pro venues.
__________________
Being correct doesn't mean you don't have to explain yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2005, 15:13
Vince lau's Avatar
Vince lau Vince lau is offline
Building robots since 1995
FRC #4914
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Markham, Canada
Posts: 599
Vince lau has a reputation beyond reputeVince lau has a reputation beyond reputeVince lau has a reputation beyond reputeVince lau has a reputation beyond reputeVince lau has a reputation beyond reputeVince lau has a reputation beyond reputeVince lau has a reputation beyond reputeVince lau has a reputation beyond reputeVince lau has a reputation beyond reputeVince lau has a reputation beyond reputeVince lau has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Vince lau
Re: Dual fields

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron
i heard about that. we went to that regional in 2002 and it was so packed that they were nearly an hour behind. they also had over 50 teams
in 2002 and 2003, The Greater Toronto Regional (Canadian Regional) had both the field and pit in the same arena.. In 2004 when we had the two fields and even this year the pits were located in a smaller arena right next to the main arena..
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2005, 16:15
Mike Ciance Mike Ciance is offline
Registered User
FRC #0025 (Raider Robotix)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 693
Mike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to Mike Ciance
Re: Dual fields

the Sovereign Bank Arena for the NJ Regional has enough room for two fields, but if there were enough teams to warrent having both, then the pits would be too large to fit on the arena floor. just 53 teams and 1 field did not leave a ton of leftover space. i'm not sure where they could go exactly, but i bet some could spill out into the hallway if needed. i could see 2 fields and 60 teams working, but i'm not sure about many more.

Last edited by Mike Ciance : 05-04-2005 at 16:18.
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2005, 17:57
David Hoff's Avatar
David Hoff David Hoff is offline
Registered User
FRC #4050 (Biohazard)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Posts: 202
David Hoff is a name known to allDavid Hoff is a name known to allDavid Hoff is a name known to allDavid Hoff is a name known to allDavid Hoff is a name known to allDavid Hoff is a name known to all
Re: Dual fields

One concern about having dual fields is that the time in between a team's matches may significantly decrease depending on the number of teams competing. If this regional was in one of the first competition weeks, then most likely a lot of teams will have a few bugs to work out and could use the 10-15 minute break to repair or improve their robot componets.
__________________
Cyber Blue Team 234: Indianapolis, IN 2002-2006
Purdue FIRST Programs: West Lafayette, IN 2006 - 2010
Cyber Titans Team 3793: Frederick, MD 2012
Biohazard Team 4050: Chambersburg, PA 2014
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ATTN: Michigan Teams >> Practice Fields Lisa Perez General Forum 2 10-02-2005 17:39
Dual monitor Display setup.... BrianJennings Inventor 6 12-01-2005 20:35
Division fields question archiver 2001 7 24-06-2002 02:40
Many inexpensive playing fields archiver 1999 5 23-06-2002 22:57
3 fields and Einstein.... Tom Schindler Championship Event 15 17-04-2002 17:19


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:18.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi