When do mentors go too far?

[Spikey]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

The defensive response is because the original poster and some follow-ups implied that such teams are somehow cheating their students out of an opportunity, by asking questions like "What is the point of robotics if adults are the ones designing, engineering, building, and servicing the robot?"

The fact that these conclusions are reached on false information (that the robots in question actually are not 100% adult built) is simply salt in the wound.

I'm in no way trying to present false information, I am just reporting my experience through interactions with other teams and mentors. I have talked to mentors who have advised teams that have the students tell the engineers what they want, then the students see the finished product a few weeks later.
I'm not saying that these students should feel cheated, they are free to feel however they want too. Maybe they like having an adult built robot that performs well and wins all the time.
I acknowledge that part of FIRST is about inspiration, but inspiration cannot have a full effect without interaction. Teams that truly inspire students to pursue engineering involve those students in the process. Hands on experience is the way robotics inspires students to get involved in engineering. Even if some students choose not to build their robot because they deal with other aspects of FIRST seeing other students work on the robot can be inspiring as well.

[davelu]

-Writing a program with me not included when i am the actuall programmer who is suppouse to do all this...i have waited for the entire year to program that bot and the mentors kindaof ruined it for me. I know they are trying to help out but they crossed the line when they do everything for you and leave you with no jobs to do. I thought the mentors were suppose to help out and teach the students how to do stuff but why are they doing it for us??? isn't it our job??
That was what really bothered me and espeically when you ask them for some help and they end up not helping you but ignoring your request for help.

[KathieK]

Originally Posted by davelu

-Writing a program with me not included when i am the actuall programmer who is suppouse to do all this...i have waited for the entire year to program that bot and the mentors kindaof ruined it for me. I know they are trying to help out but they crossed the line when they do everything for you and leave you with no jobs to do. I thought the mentors were suppose to help out and teach the students how to do stuff but why are they doing it for us??? isn't it our job??
That was what really bothered me and espeically when you ask them for some help and they end up not helping you but ignoring your request for help.

I could see where that could be an issue - I would hope that you could feel comfortable bringing up issues like this in your team meetings. If not, perhaps speaking with your team leader privately about your concerns might help - you may not be the only one this has affected. Or perhaps you and the mentor have personality conflicts (that may or may not be able to be resolved). These situations often occur in the workplace. Learning how to deal with them can be a great learning experience now. Does your team have an end-of-year assessment program? If not, I recommend that you implement one this year. It gives the team members a way to step back and say, Ok, this is what I did this year, this is what I wasn't able to do, this is what I had hoped to do. One of the questions we ask is, "How did the team help you be successful this year?" and another, "What could the team do better?"