Should Sponsors ask to be recognized?

[Bill Moore]

These posts describe sponsors as some entity separate from the team, but I don't think that is appropriate in many cases. When you have a major donor, that corporation becomes more of a "silent partner" than a detached sponsor. Donors not only provide some funding for teams, but also space for building the robot, machine shops to fabricate parts, and networks of engineers and mentors to train and guide the students. They are not detached in any sense of the term.

We would be insulting a partner who contributed so much to the success of the program (regardless of the robot's record), if we failed to make note of their contribution by recognizing them in some manner. Our FIRST program is only 6 years old, but our engineering program for high school students is over 30 years old. The first 24+ years the company didn't have a robot to put its' name on, but the company still supported the ideals that FIRST is trying to bring into the culture.

[Collmandoman]

Originally Posted by dlavery

And I would have to respond that, as the largest sponsor of FIRST teams in the entire program, NASA massively disagrees with you. I reject the notion that asking for a team to acknowledge the sponsorship of an organization is equivalent to not understanding what FIRST is all about.

I think this is part of what FIRST is about
It's strange you used all... I don't' think I mentioned that.. but I do feel that ASKING for recognition does one of two things..
It either implies that the recipients of the contribution are ungrateful and need to be reminded to reimburse the sponsor by recognition. Which shows a lack of credit and trust to the team.
OR it is a "hey we did something for you, here is our demand so you can thank us and pay us back in the way we see appropriate"
I'm having a hard time seeing it another way..
I feel FIRST recognizes NASA's generous spirit and thanks them - I hope NASA doesn't say - We'll sponsor you if you get our name out there more -- This should just happen because the community acknowledges your sacrifices -- It has the EXACT same ends.. but the means seem so much more moral to me -- In this case pragmatism = no! (well to me)

When NASA sponsors a team, part of the deal is that NASA is recognized by the team as a sponsor, "NASA" is included somewhere in the team name, and the NASA logo appears somewhere on the robot. This is done for a number of reasons, including:

I mean..errr... this bothers me.. but it doesn't -- I don't know..yes it does
I would just hope that teams would have the common sense to recognize their sponsors.. because their team couldn't't exist without them -- None of our sponsors this year said anything about us displaying their name.. we just do because we feel they are what made it possible this year-- without them this would not be possible AT ALL..
they don't remind us of that by telling us to show them off
we show them off because we are grateful

- it is appropriate and professional to recognize the contributions of all members of the team; when an organization sponsors the team, they tacitly become part of the team, they and the team are then associated with each other, and they should be recognized as such

TOTALLY AGREED =)

- recognition of NASA sponsorship of the team acknowledges that NASA has used their resources to "support the cause" and further both the goals of FIRST and the agency. They can then show their sponsors (the U.S. Congress and the public) that they are properly utilizing the resources that they have been given. When they do so, then they are given additional resources in future years to continue the effort. If they don't, then about 200 teams will be without sponsorship next year.

I just would kinda hope in humanity.. that if teams weren't asked to recognize NASA.. it would still do so..

So the bottom line is that NASA does, and will continue to, ask to be recognized as a sponsor when the agency supports a team. Because NASA is smart enough to understand that without the recognition of the sponsorship, the ability of the agency to continue to support the program will be questionable and the long term effects are much, much worse than any minor discomfort someone might feel about asking for a logo to be placed on a robot.

The way you juxtapose the two makes it seem like my view is pointless(and adding the word smart- has the same effect). This is about principle.. and I bet if not asking for recognition would not cost FIRST or NASA to begin to fall into oblivion. I ACTUALLY think people would be surprised that the same recognition is given.

Does this mean that NASA is a bad sponsor, or the agency is involved for all the wrong reasons, or the agency doesn't understand what FIRST is all about. Well, NASA has been involved with FIRST for the past ten years. You have all had ample opportunity to observe the actions and behaviors of the agency and it's engineers, and judge if NASA is an appropriate sponsor or not. What do you think?

again.. some farfetched comments
I think they've done great! =) and you!

[Daniel Brim]

Well, first of all, I think sponsors should be recognized. Here's why.

Sponsors are responsible for your FIRST experience. Without them there would be no robot. You would not be in this wonderful program (I think we can all agree with that). Without being in this program, you wouldn't have a chance to be inspired daily by the likes of Dean Kamen, Woodie Flowers, Dave Lavery, JVN, Karthik Kanagasabapathy, Andy Baker, and all people like that. Without FIRST, you probably wouldn't know who these people are. Without FIRST, your life might not change the way it is now.

Following that chain (which I hope is logical), sponsors lead to life-changing. So, you owe them. You wouldn't know about FIRST, so what's a little sticker on the robot going to do?

[Collmandoman]

the name of this thread shoudl be changed-- whoever created it~ to something like "Should Sponsors ask to be recognized" ~ the current topic.. is slightly...well.. awfully misleading and doesn't cover what is being discussed

[dhitchco]

Not all sponsors/donors will blatently ASK YOU to be recognized in some form. But they will WANT to be recognized. Recognizing donations and sponsorships is a LONG-TERM exercise in relationship-building.

Just think about how valuable it can be to your team to have a sponsor chatting about the fact that "my company is a sponsor of a robot competition at XYZ high school" to his/her friends or co-workers.

That word-of-mouth advertising for your robotics program is IMPOSSIBLE to buy. The advertising companies on Madison Ave in New York would KILL for that kind of "buzz" and excitement.

The sponsorship begins when you meet the sponsor and collect his/her money to fund your efforts. But that only where it begins:
1) Immediately write to the sponsor saying "thanks"
2) Keep them informed of your successes and shortfalls (maybe they'll pitch in even more!)
3) Even after regionals and nationals, keep your sponsors in the loop via e-mail, your web site, etc. This is a long-term annual process that you'll want to nurse each year.
4) Some sponsors will want a "splash" via name on robot, t-shirts, etc. Others will want a smaller presence. But they ALL want to be recognized and thanked. They are an INTEGRAL part of your team.

[Billfred]

Honestly, I don't see it as a problem.

When you get (celebration of choice--birthday, Christmas, whatever) presents, what do you do? You write a thank-you card, showing appreciation for your newly-obtained (object of choice--cash, underwear, whatever).

Now, when you get $?,000 sponsorships, what do you do?

Sure, you can always argue that gifts should be stringless and such--however, let's imagine Billfred Industries sponsored Redateam, who made no mention of sponsors anywhere (shirts, robot, pit), and Bluateam, who placed their sponsors on their T-shirts, as well as the higher donors on the robot itself. Maybe they even gave a team shirt to the top guy when he came to the regional (approximate cost: $10), or a button (approximate cost: under $1). When Billfred Industries gets reminded of FIRST again in the fall, who will the company probably remember more?

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by Collmandoman

the name of this thread shoudl be changed-- whoever created it~ to something like "Should Sponsors ask to be recognized" ~ the current topic.. is slightly...well.. awfully misleading and doesn't cover what is being discussed

Typically, thread names are not changed to fit the top they have shifted to discussing. If anything, another thread is created.

I think sponsers should be recognized, period. Do I think it should be required? Yes, because without sponsors, none of us would be here. Period. I don't think there's an underlying meaning in any of it - it's just the righteous, polite thing to do. If someone does something for you, you thank them. Thinking about hidden motives and underlying meaning in all of it is pointless. Sponsors help FIRST teams, and in turn, FIRST teams help out sponsors by getting the sponsor's name out, and in many team's cases, actually end up working for their major sponsor.

[Collmandoman]

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

Typically, thread names are not changed to fit the top they have shifted to discussing. If anything, another thread is created.

I think sponsers should be recognized, period. Do I think it should be required? Yes, because without sponsors, none of us would be here. Period. I don't think there's an underlying meaning in any of it - it's just the righteous, polite thing to do. If someone does something for you, you thank them. Thinking about hidden motives and underlying meaning in all of it is pointless. Sponsors help FIRST teams, and in turn, FIRST teams help out sponsors by getting the sponsor's name out, and in many team's cases, actually end up working for their major sponsor.

That's the whole thing... this post was moved.. and given an entirely incorrect name.. it seems only lavery has posted anything that hits the question~
Does it seem OK to you for sponsors to ask to be recognized? Why or why not~

[Greg McCoy]

Originally Posted by Collmandoman

Does it seem OK to you for sponsors to ask to be recognized? Why or why not~

Heck yes...corporate sponsors are giving away their resources which could be applied directly to their business. The least we can do is comply with a request to increase their visibility to the public.

[Chris Fultz]

OK, been thinking on this one for awhile, and I cannot hold back any more.

This may come as a news flash to many of you, but most businesses in the US, and the world, are in business to make money. That is not a bad thing, in fact, it is a very good thing. And, as a business, they are responsible to their owners (shareholders) to spend their money wisely and earn a decent return on it.

Most businesses also have requests from many, many organizations that could use their money to do good things. United Way, Boy Scouts, Shelters, and on and on. So how do they choose where to put their money? Some of it is given purely as a charitable contribution. No strings attached. No recognition expected. A certain portion of annual budgets are set aside for such purposes and are part of being a good community member.

But FIRST is different. FIRST is not a charity. FIRST, for many companies, is an investment in the future. It is a source of engineers and techncians. It is a place to make your company known to some of the brightest stars so that they will want to come and work for you when they get out of school. It is a way for companies to secure their future when the engineering work force continues to shrink. And, if companies do not feel they are getting any value out of their sponsorship (and value can be defined in many ways), then they will find somewhere else to spend their money.

Rolls-Royce is very proud of the teams it sponsors (7), and hopes that the teams are also proud to be a part of the Rolls-Royce family. One way that a team can show that is to advertise our name and have Rolls-Royce announced as a sponsor at the competitions. We greatly appreciate it when they do.


* note: I work for Rolls-Royce, and am part of the committee that determines our support for FIRST teams each year.

[Steve W]

I changed the name of the thread so that some would be happy. Hope that I don't cause any problems with it.

Yeah Sponsors.

[Beth Sweet]

Alright, time for my two cents.

There is a difference between Gracious Professionalism and not thinking. Sponsors are businesses. The point of being in business is to make money. If a sponsor doesn't use intelligent marketing techniques, they will make no money and turn into a 1 year sponsor. Now there is a dilemma.

Obviously businesses need to make money. FIRST provides a fantastic outlet for businesses to do two things: advertise and help out some kids working to make something better out of our future. The sensible thing to do is ask for some sort of advertising for the money they are contributing. Spent elsewhere, that money could buy them anything from a billboard to a commercial on NBC (and yes these numbers are realistic, I was in Advertising 205 last semester so I know pricing for those mediums).

Bottom Line: I believe in science they consider this a mutually beneficial relationship. Why would you expect to get something out of them without providing them with something in return? That seems a bit selfish to me...

[Stephen Kowski]

Should sponsors ask to be recognized? No. They shouldn't have too....do it out of respect.
Should waiters asked to be tipped? No. It is common courtesy.

I hope people don't lose sight that FIRST is a privilege to participate in and not a right.

Do volunteers at the events ask for recognition? Not really, but still it seems people go out of their way to thank them despite it taking an extra effort on their part.

Someone does something nice for me in whatever aspect I am dealing with in my life I am obligated to thank them? No. It is the courteous/right thing to do.

I don't know if I could put this answer in simpler terms. Maybe if I just walk around the championship hitting people with a frying pan would make it clearer, but I am just astounded by this question.

Bottomline: If your sponsor has to ask to be recognized you have already made a huge mistake.

[Daniel Brim]

Another point... we are on Chief Delphi right now (duh). Just look at the name. Chief Delphi is a recognition to the entity that ultimately keeps these forums running. Without their main sponsors, Chief Delphi would not exist. Since Chief Delphi is probably the biggest FIRST resourse there is, we recognize the company that keeps Chief Delphi alive. Without Chief Delphi, we wouldn't have many things... a line to talk with famous FIRSTers, a place to collaborate with thousands of other robotics students, etc. Chief Delphi is one of the reasons that FIRST is so great, and I'm all for recognizing Chief Delphi's sponsors in my everyday speech.

Chief Delphi is great!

-Daniel

[Andy Baker]

14 years ago, Dean Kamen approached many COMPANIES and invited them to get involved with this new thing called U.S.FIRST. He approached, GM, Motorola, Johnson & Johnson, Baxter Healthcare, Boston Scientific, Xerox and many others. He asked them to offer up their best design engineers and enter a contest, partnering them with high school students.

Originally Posted by Collmandoman

I dunno.. gah I guess I'm just frustrated at macroeconomics...

I don't mean this rude... If I were in a large company and I saw FIRST.. I would give everything free.. or if I was in a small one-- everything would be at cost . If everyone did this.. the kit would be less.. and thus every year you wouldn't pay 6k.. which would enable more students to be inspired(because more team would be able to go). I know this is hard for small companies, and I understand why they have to do this. I think FIRST should target only the very large companies that understand the ideas of FIRST and give everything at cost, or donate(I know several already do). A free kit would be nice.. and maybe it's on the FIRST horizon. Or maybe I'm a fool

The next time you are at a competition, look up at the vertical blue banner and see who the "Founding Sponsors" are. They are listed there for a reason. These companies DID give much for free, for many years. Some of these companies have been supporting FIRST even though their stock price stinks and their share holders are frustrated.

In some fairytale world, I can see where companies care less about their bottom lines and give all of their profits to any charity who puts out their hand. But, companies have to make tough decisions in order to stay in business. Sometimes those decisions mean that they cut their sponsorship to a worthwhile organization, or they just try to charge enough to cover their costs. Other times, companies (like the one a friend and I started) are made to HELP FIRST teams while still being somewhat profitable for us.

"a free kit would be nice"... Yes, and I would like a free Porsche parked in my driveway. What makes students in FIRST entitled to handouts?

What I have seen in FIRST is a large group of young, energetic thinkers who actually believe that if they want something, they need to go out and earn it. FIRST is not about handouts. FIRST does not breed young people who think that they are entitled to freebies. At least I sure hope that it doesn't.

Originally Posted by Collmandoman

Does it seem OK to you for sponsors to ask to be recognized? Why or why not~

Yes, is it perfectly OK for a sponsor to ask to be recognized. With any business plan, deal, agreement, or partnership, some sort of "deal" needs to be struck to make the thing work. On the FIRST team I am on, the "deal" is that Delphi sponsors our team while our students and adults do much for the community. This makes Delphi look good. At events, we compete hard and try to do the best we can. This makes Delphi look like a positive sponsor of FIRST. In our pit, we proudly post a Delphi banner. The kids eagerly hang this up. Yep, Delphi corporate sent us this banner, and asked us to display it. It is part of the deal. Our team graciously and proudly agrees to this deal. Also... part of our deal is that our students need to pay (or fundraise) a portion of their costs for the year. This is our way of making the kids take ownership of their participation on the team. They are not getting a free handout. Some kids bust their behinds and work hard on our projects for the community. In the past, these kids have had less to pay to cover their fair share (this is all spelled out in our team handbook on the TechnoKats website).

People who have issues and problems with a corporate presence in FIRST need to learn their history. FIRST would not be here without these supporting corporations, large and small.

(I know I am getting winded, but bear with me here)

I want to close with a little story. Gather around uncle Andy...

In 2000, we decided to host an off-season competition called "IRI". We started small, and had about 21 teams lined up to come. We had a great place and a good date. All things were going well. As we were dealing with the details of this, we realized that we needed to get a field controller package from Innovation First. As you might know, they were a very small company in 1999 and only began their work on field controllers in 2000.

So... I call down to Texas and talk to Tony at IFI. I asked if we could rent one of their field controllers. He said "yes" but did not have a set price for what it would cost for us to rent a complete system. My words to him were this:

"hey... you guys are doing great things. I want you to make some money and do more. How about $500 for the system, and if we break anything, we will cover all costs?"

Tony agreed to this and graciously supported us. He also wanted us to tell FIRST how they were supporting us. I saw no problem in that.

My point is that we loved what they were providing for us FIRST teams. We WANTED them to make money off of us. We WANTED them to succeed and prosper. We WANTED them to get recognition for this so we noted it in our event program. We loved this deal. They helped us succeed. They made money. This is what we call a "win-win".

End of story.

What gets my goat is that people come across and question corporate involvement in FIRST and scoff at the fact that these corporations ask to be recognized. How about a little faith in the current system? I am all for educating people, as long as they listen and show some appreciation for what is good.

ok... man... I feel like I am in Hyde Park, on a soapbox. whew.

Andy B.