TOO much scouting info???

[JoeXIII'007]

There is no such thing as too much scouting info as I have learned this year. There is, however, such a thing as extraneous or unimportant scouting information. You can determine that probably by a simple test: can you get the exact same information watching the robot in action from the stands AND talking with team members in the pits? Also make sure scouting info relates to the game and not to tech specs of the robot.

-Joe

[petek]

Originally Posted by JoeXIII'007

Also make sure scouting info relates to the game and not to tech specs of the robot.

-Joe

Good point! A classic rookie mistake is compiling tons of technical info and team publicity, in the belief that it will tell them how the team will perform on the field. I believe that scouting is best done two ways: watching matches and talking to the drive teams/student team leaders.

[spears312]

As being one of two people in charge of strategy for Heatwave I would have to say that no, you can never collect too much info. I do admit that there are only two or three variables we look at for every team for every match, but then we may look at other more specific variables for given teams in given matches. The way I look at it is that there may be something we look for in every robot in every match and we may only call on that information once and it could make the difference, or not, but its worth having. Being the one to "compile" all the information and then relay to our drivers my best prediction of what our opponents will do and our alliance partners can do, I look at nearly all the data we have then cut it all down to what is relevant.
When it comes down to it I prefer strategy to only be limited by personnel, time, resources, and will power.

[FusionDude364]

When you ask if it is possible to have too much scouting info, I must say yes and no. The reason for this is because it is very possible to have too much information that is not necessary or not helpful, but there is no such thing as too much quality information. Example: The color or armor of someone's robot is not all that important to me when I am looking at forms for an upcoming match, especially since the game this year does not necessarily require heavy armor. Important, quality information would be how many tetras a robot can stack per game or how reliable it is. It is better to have a smaller amount of good information that an excess of useless information. I know I modified our scouting sheets for Atlanta to get rid of some spaces we had on our scouting sheet that turned out to be insignificant when planning strategy for a match. This allows scouts to concentrate on the more important information. So, yes it is possible to have too much info if it is bad or useless. It is not possible if the information is important and relevant.

[EricH]

As head student scout for my team, I think that there is no unimportant data except maybe match scores.

We do things in an "original" way: Thusday is spent talking to teams and taking pictures. Friday, finish up Thursday's job and take notes on the matches. 6 people are each assigned a driver station and watch only the teams in that driver station, including us. Someone usually takes video of how we do to watch later and look for mistakes that we make. Friday night we meet, watch the video, evaluate the data for the day, and decide what we would like Saturday's strategy to be based on the data. We also get a list together of who we will probably want to pick if we get that far. Saturday we watch the rest of the matches, scout them, and revise the list accordingly.

The most important information is:
1) Match number- helps determine if a team has improved
2) number of tetras capped by that team
3) number of tetras brought onto the field by that team
4) penalties if seen or announced
5) auto mode
This info is not necessarily listed in order.

See what I mean about not having too much useful data, ever?

[cbolin]

Excellent feedback from everyone!! Reducing all of that scouting info to a clear statement of how to play that next match is pretty challenging. An then the drive team must be willing to accept it as Swampdude pointed out.

[my sea story]
At Palmetto, by the end of Friday competitions, we were doing poorly in the qualifying rounds even though we had these things going for us:

1). We spent about 6 hours the day before making 3 major mods on our bot that we learned from in Florida. This gave us a great bot.
2). We watched and filmed every match and recorded lots of scouting info similar to that suggested by previous posts.

We posed this question to our stategy and drive team that Friday night? Why were the top 5 robots ranked in the top 5 after only 6 or 7 matches? Our robot was now as good as these robots, but what was the difference?

The team (students) went to the hotel that night, watched several matches with the top 5 bots, watched our matches, bounced the results with all of our scouting data and came up with this significant strategy change.
1. We were to play in a specific (?) manner.
2. We were to reduce all scouting data to just two (?) variables.

The change in our game play was incredible. Finally, after two years, we were doing things right.

NOTE: We'll share the (?) as soon as Radioshack unlocks their vexrobotics.com website. ;-) (something like 8 d, 7 h, 34m, 29 s)

So, reducing collected data (tons of it) into something applicable to a 2-minute match seems to be the key element we were missing. We look forward to seeing a lot of you guys in Atlanta and finding out if our team's efforts will pay off. To the rest, we'll see you in 2006.

Good luck,
ChuckB

[Swampdude]

Originally Posted by cbolin

Excellent feedback from everyone!! Reducing all of that scouting info to a clear statement of how to play that next match is pretty challenging. An then the drive team must be willing to accept it as Swampdude pointed out.

[my sea story]
At Palmetto, by the end of Friday competitions, we were doing poorly in the qualifying rounds even though we had these things going for us:

1). We spent about 6 hours the day before making 3 major mods on our bot that we learned from in Florida. This gave us a great bot.
2). We watched and filmed every match and recorded lots of scouting info similar to that suggested by previous posts.

We posed this question to our stategy and drive team that Friday night? Why were the top 5 robots ranked in the top 5 after only 6 or 7 matches? Our robot was now as good as these robots, but what was the difference?

The team (students) went to the hotel that night, watched several matches with the top 5 bots, watched our matches, bounced the results with all of our scouting data and came up with this significant strategy change.
1. We were to play in a specific (?) manner.
2. We were to reduce all scouting data to just two (?) variables.

The change in our game play was incredible. Finally, after two years, we were doing things right.

NOTE: We'll share the (?) as soon as Radioshack unlocks their vexrobotics.com website. ;-) (something like 8 d, 7 h, 34m, 29 s)

So, reducing collected data (tons of it) into something applicable to a 2-minute match seems to be the key element we were missing. We look forward to seeing a lot of you guys in Atlanta and finding out if our team's efforts will pay off. To the rest, we'll see you in 2006.

Good luck,
ChuckB

I noticed you guys improved tremendously on Saturday. In the finals you guys were rocking. I thought we were going to be seeing you in the finals. I'm surprised some info is what you needed. It seemed you were more limited by design. But you looked like a totaly different team on Saturday.

[cooknl]

Originally Posted by cbolin

1. We were to play in a specific (?) manner.
2. We were to reduce all scouting data to just two (?) variables.

The change in our game play was incredible. Finally, after two years, we were doing things right.

NOTE: We'll share the (?) as soon as Radioshack unlocks their vexrobotics.com website. ;-) (something like 8 d, 7 h, 34m, 29 s)

Are you still sharing?

Last year at Vegas, we got 4th seed as rookies with NO scouting data and NO idea about who to pick. We made it to semis, but could have gone farther, with better info!

In fact, I'd like to see posts or links of ALL teams scouting plans and tools.

2 best pieces of advice I've seen so far are:
1. Collect PERFORMANCE data, because that's all that matters, in the end (Ask the drive team what info they think is most important on the field)
2. Assign (if possible) a scout per team in the stands to get match data that can show improvement or decline over time

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

As the Scouting Leader of our team for the 2005-2006 year, I cannot put more stress than anything on two factors: Communication between the drive team and the scouts, and the quality of people scouting.

One of my goals this year was to analyze our scouting system last year, and over the past years to look for potential improvements and put them in place. Here are a few of the things I've noticed, in support of statements above.

1) No matter how much info you can collect, your drive team doesn't need it all. They are your drive team because they have proven that they can think quickly and make informed and fruitful decisions for the ultimate purpose of success. Our job as scouters is to give them what they want and when they want it, and not hinder them with unnecessary information. Thus, I am of the belief that you can definitly have a large amount of extra information.

2) Your scouters must be mature and committed individuals. Scouting is not just a "thursday-friday-saturday" commitment with fun and games in between. If you want your team to be prepared and efficient during competition, you as a scout must put in effort. How?

• Attend strategy sessions. One of the things you find out from teams is their strategical priorities and how they mesh with your own. To do this, you must understand your team's strategy.
• Do as much prescouting as possible. A reasonably accurate list of teams is available online months before competition, and small changes can be made on-site as needed. So, be flexible too!
• Brief the drive team / tech team at least weekly on your findings. Tell them about your plans, your organization, and stay updated on their strategic and structural priorities throughout the season.
• Everybody loves socializing. It's great, I like it too. But your team must come first if you are a scout. You can socialize in the evening at the hotel, or when the day's scouting work is finished (if it is) or you can meet people quickly when you scout their teams.
• Last but not least, although every single scout I know is very able-minded and capable, it is very advisable to have a mentor specifically tied to your scouting sub-team. Mentors can offer insight and guidance, as well as mediate any conflicts that arise. They shouldn't do jobs for you, but they can help you stay on top of your work and keep you from being overly stressed.

Above all, good luck! Competition is awesome. Our scouting system last year worked very well, and I would be happy to discuss with anybody interested the specifics of having a successful scouting team.