pic: Just was not enough room

[Rich Wong]

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[DarkJedi613]

See now the funny thing about that is that no part of our robot was actually touching outside the zone since the back of our robot was on top of a tetra. It still didn't count as being in the zone, but that doesn't mean we didn't try.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by DarkJedi613

See now the funny thing about that is that no part of our robot was actually touching outside the zone since the back of our robot was on top of a tetra. It still didn't count as being in the zone, but that doesn't mean we didn't try.

Now - this situation has been discussed before... Should this be counting? Q/A came out saying that a tetra was not part of the robot, except for in the HP loading zone.
So - is there any official FIRST ruling about a "supporting" object here? Technically - it's not touching carpet outside the line, so according to the rules, it should count?

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by AmyPrib

Now - this situation has been discussed before... Should this be counting? Q/A came out saying that a tetra was not part of the robot, except for in the HP loading zone.
So - is there any official FIRST ruling about a "supporting" object here? Technically - it's not touching carpet outside the line, so according to the rules, it should count?

Since this also just came up in two different PMs, I throw in my $0.02

Regarding the "bonus points" question, the refs made the correct call by not awarding the "end zone" bonus. The more complete explanation by FIRST of the "when is a tetra part of the robot?" answer does not change this situation. Rule <C03> says that "all three ROBOTS of the same alliance in their designated END ZONE at the conclusion of a match is worth 10 points to the alliance. A ROBOT is not considered in the END ZONE if it is touching the field outside the defined ENDZONE border." Notice is says touching the field - not "touching the carpet" outside the border. I would posit that for this purpose a tetra sitting on the carpet is considered part of the field. And in this case the tetra is clearly outside the end zone tape border. So the robot is touching the "field" outside the border. Therefore, the robot is not within the end zone as defined in Section 4.2.1, so it does not satisfy the criteria for the bonus points, so no bonus.

-dave

[sanddrag]

Back to the 2004 idea of the "spirit of the rule" I would not count that as in the end zone.

Or, for the "supporting object" call that has been made before I would say that if the tetra was removed, the robot would be on the carpet. The robot is not in the endzone by its own doing.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Since this also just came up in two different PMs, I throw in my $0.02

Regarding the "bonus points" question, the refs made the correct call by not awarding the "end zone" bonus. The more complete explanation by FIRST of the "when is a tetra part of the robot?" answer does not change this situation. Rule <C03> says that "all three ROBOTS of the same alliance in their designated END ZONE at the conclusion of a match is worth 10 points to the alliance. A ROBOT is not considered in the END ZONE if it is touching the field outside the defined ENDZONE border." Notice is says touching the field - not "touching the carpet" outside the border. I would posit that for this purpose a tetra sitting on the carpet is considered part of the field. And in this case the tetra is clearly outside the end zone tape border. So the robot is touching the "field" outside the border. Therefore, the robot is not within the end zone as defined in Section 4.2.1, so it does not satisfy the criteria for the bonus points, so no bonus.
-dave

This is a good point, and the tetra is now an extension of the field.. This does make good sense. Seems like it was defined somewhere as not touching the carpet outside the line, but we see the rule as written.

Plus, I found
ID: 1200 Section: 4.3.1 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/17/2005
Q: If a robot of a single team is disqualified and disabled by a referee during a match, must its alliance members push the now dq'd bot into the endzone to get the 10 pt bonus at the end of the match?
A: The only way to score the 10 points is to have all robots touching only inside the end zone

.. which basically says you can't be touching anything outside the defined endzone border, but that should not (does not, I believe) include a tetra that was pushed into you as you mind your own business sitting completely within the zone.

[colt527]

Its ok, we didnt need to get in to win. It was still really close, close enough that I had no idea who was gonna win after the round. I think it came down 2 # of tetras, cause we both had home row and didnt get the robots behind the line.

I wonder if I can find a pic of the second semi-final where we lost because about 1 mm of 358s robot wasnt inside the end zone =P. Now, thats close.